Should employer pay overnight expense?

Proc

If petrol is going to be more expensive than a hotel then surely a sensible conversation with your manager will fix it;

You: So, you don't want to pay £80 for my hotel?

Retard manager: Nope. Too expensive.

You: Cool story. Can you pay £160 for my petrol?

Retard manager: Yeh.

You: ...

Retard manager: ...

You: ...

Retard manager: I'll book a hotel.

rupee99

jonnyd281 wrote: »

Two problems with this -
1. you only get 40p/mile for the first 10000 miles each year,
2. if you are caught it would be classed as gross misconduct, you would be commiting fraud by claiming for something you are not actually doing.

You really need to speak to your HR people about this.

The rate quoted is the HMRC AMR (approved mileage rate) for the first 10,000 miles, thereafter it drops to 25p per mile

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/travel.htm

The actual amount paid is up to the employer, the only complication is that if it is in excess of the rates quoted it becomes taxable and subject to class 1a National Insurance contributions.

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Possibly fraud, possibly a perfectly acceptable way to do it - you'd need to check. Where I work, you're expected to claim the cheapest reasonable option, but if you choose to travel a different way, that's fine. So if you could get a train for a sensible price, but you prefer to drive and that works out more expensive, you'd claim for a train fare.

Claiming for something that you have not expended is ALWAYS fraud*, it does not matter whether it is to disguise other expenditure or not.

What attitude the employer takes to it is another matter, but if it is something normally done in a branch or subsidiary and Head Office should discover the practise if they were so minded all parties involved could be prosecuted.

EDIT The offence is Obtaining Money or Property by Deception

jonnyd281

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Possibly fraud, possibly a perfectly acceptable way to do it - you'd need to check. Where I work, you're expected to claim the cheapest reasonable option, but if you choose to travel a different way, that's fine. So if you could get a train for a sensible price, but you prefer to drive and that works out more expensive, you'd claim for a train fare.

Trouble is the claims forms my company have seperates mileage and accomodation, if I were to fill in the mileage part then stay in a hotel... you can see my train of thought (I hope). OP needs to speak to HR.

timnicebutdim_2

jonnyd281 wrote: »

2. if you are caught it would be classed as gross misconduct, you would be commiting fraud by claiming for something you are not actually doing.

rupee99 wrote: »

Claiming for something that you have not expended is ALWAYS fraud*, it does not matter whether it is to disguise other expenditure or not.

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but I thought the suggestion was:

1. OP claims for mileage he is quite rightly supposed to be claiming, as he has incurred the expense, and then;

2. Pays for hotel out of own pocket (using money from expenses).

Which isn't fraud is it??

jdturk

timnicebutdim wrote: »

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but I thought the suggestion was:

1. OP claims for mileage he is quite rightly supposed to be claiming, as he has incurred the expense, and then;

2. Pays for hotel out of own pocket (using money from expenses).

Which isn't fraud is it??

Point is he will only say do 2 journeys in a week then, one on a monday morning and one return later in the week but its likely his hotel bills and food bills will be more than the petrol money 'profit' he makes

I would be fraud to claim he was doing the travelling 4 days a week and then staying in a hotel

rupee99

timnicebutdim wrote: »

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but I thought the suggestion was:

1. OP claims for mileage he is quite rightly supposed to be claiming, as he has incurred the expense, and then;

2. Pays for hotel out of own pocket (using money from expenses).

Which isn't fraud is it??

Whilst you quote the practical circumstances the legal situation is that the offence of Obtaining Property by Deception is one of strict liability.

Whatever the nett result to the employer is you cannot say the expense was for one thing whereas it was actually paid for something else.

It could well be that the employer would "turn a blind eye" but, if as suggested by the OP in his first post the employer is not minded to pay the expenses (and we don't know what the OP gets as a mileage allowance, if anything) then should problems occur in the future he lays himself open to potential trouble in the future.

ckerrd

timnicebutdim wrote: »

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but I thought the suggestion was:

1. OP claims for mileage he is quite rightly supposed to be claiming, as he has incurred the expense, and then;

2. Pays for hotel out of own pocket (using money from expenses).

Which isn't fraud is it??

It is fraud as he will be claiming expenses for something that he has not spent any money on.

Unless you are suggesting he claims the mileage for the trip there and back and then uses this money to help pay for a hotel in which case it is not fraud.

Sorry just confused now.

gingerdad

as someone who used to do 100 miles each way every day, i don't really see the issue, yes the employer is being a bit tight by not letting you at least only do i a couple of days a week and staying over (at the end of the day you can stay in a travelodge for about 30 quid)...

But the easy option is to find a different job.

The_Unready

"as someone who used to do 100 miles each way every day, i don't really see the issue".

I think the OP has clearly pointed out what the issue is!

He is being asked to travel for 5 hours a day and do an 8 hour work day as well. A minimum of 13 hours a day.

He is being asked to do this for a minimum of 4 months, perhaps up to six months!

Is that clearer?

The Unready

ckerrd

Hopefully the OP will be back on later to rejoin the discussion.