retrospective planning permission denied - should we still buy??

m_curiousity

So the property we're currently purchasing, (only in the first stages) has got new UPVC windows installed. I've looked online and planning permission was applied for retrospectively in March 09, (it says the windows were installed in Dec 07) however the planning permission was declined as the new windows do not match the neighbouring properties and open in a different way. The property was then sold on to the guy whos done it up and owns it now, (who we are trying to buy from).

We obviously dont want to have a problem when reselling ourselves, so our first reaction was to ask the estate agent to get the vendors response, with a view to agreeing we could either a)drop the price after getting a quote to find out how much replacing them would cost, or b) ask the vendor to get these replaced himself before exchange.

Dont want the vendor to think 'Sod it, I'll sell to someone else who doesnt notice the lack of permission' as I do really like the property, however we dont want this to bite us in the back!!

Oh but the good thing is I work for the local council and the estate agent knows that, (its already freaked him out once when he suggested I overstate the fixtures and fittings cost and get out of the stamp duty then a day later found out I work for the VAT dept in the local council! :rotfl:).

I have told the EA that I havent yet spoken to the planning dept but we are very concerned about this, (bit mean maybe but hes told a few porkies already so its just revenge!).

Any advice on how we should deal with this situation for anyone thats gone through it??

Cheers

Fire_Fox

Is the house in a conservation area or is it listed? Having refused planning the council could take action to enforce the windows being put back the way they were, which could be expensive.

m_curiousity

Firefox - No its in neither as far as I know. Yes I am concerned that the windows need replacing which is why Im wondering about lowering our offer. Cant see any other way round this unless we want to inherit the risk??

Purpletopaz

Hi,

I work local council and we get this query alot, although I am not fully converse in planning but this is a query that comes in alot to the gateway - I am a first point of contact and offer basic planning advice.
My advice to you would be to contact your planning enforcement officer, they will probably recommend they are replaced/made to requirements ( before purchase ) as the council could at any time enforce planning law on any owner. This is not something that will disappear and will pop up again if you want to sell. But you local planning office will give you any advice you need!

Oh you work for LA so just call that dept I am sure they will tell you what you already know, but it does mean cost either way.

leveller2911

I'm confused here,if the house is not listed then they didn't need planning permission to change them as its either done via the FENSA scheme or a building notice. OP did they enlarge the windows? or make a new opening in a wall and insert a new window? in these cases PP would be needed

m_curiousity

Hiya,

I've double checked and its not down as a conservation area on the LA website, or a listed building.

I understood that planning permission was needed for anything changing the exterior of a property or major structural changes inside. Is this not the case??

As far as I can tell from looking at teh application all they did was change the wooden sash frames to plastic style UPVC ones that open differently.

JQ.

You don't need planning permission to change your windows. As stated above, only if it's in a conservation area or Listed.

Do they comply with Building Regs? It could be that the opening's are not large enough for escape, or some such thing.

Richard_Webster

Yes, OP needs to be clear as to the difference between Planning and Building Regulations.

However Building Regs are about standards of construction and safety and not about what things look like so it seems more likely that Planning is involved.

There could have been a condition requiring any changes (such as to windows) to require Planning permission thereby removing the normal tolerances for that particular property or group of properties. The alterations to the windows could have been in breach of such a condition.

If the work was done in breach of an express Planning Condition then 10 years has to elapse before such work becomes immune from enforcement, otherwise it would be 4 years.

If OP is buying cash he could take a view about the likelihood of the Council actually taking enforcement action, but if with a mortgage the matter would have to be sorted out to the lender's satisfaction. The buyer's solicitor would require the seller to sort it out - the seller may not want to do so but if told that nobody can buy the place with a mortgage without it being sorted the seller might change his mind.

m_curiousity

Thank you to everyone who posted, I have found out that Brighton & Hove (where the property is) has very stringent planning laws and we have the biggest planning department in the country. This means that I can be almost guaranteed that a check up would be taking place fairly soon to make sure the windows have been replaced.

The reason planning permission was needed was because its a row of terraced victorian houses, all with wooden sash windows. The change to these windows affected the 'look' of the area which the council wanted to preserve, even though it wasnt a conservation area/listed building.

The latest update is the vendor apparently has a letter from the council giving him permission to keep the windows as they are. I havent seen it yet and the good news is as I work for the council I'll easily be able to tell if its fake or not!

Btw Richard, Im a she not a he! Although not easy to tell from the username I know....also thanks for the advice

dexter_fan

You don't always need to be in a conservation area/ listed to have these issues. My father in law lives in a relatively new building(20years) and there is a Covenant to the Title Deeds about the windows. When we replaced them with UPVC a couple of years ago, we had to keep the outside frame brown in keeping with the other wooden windows in the cul de sac