URGENT Electrical/Plumbing Question

1984ReturnsForReal_2

Hello peeps


I have just been around a mates house who told me they have had a plumber in to fit a new bathroom.

The bath has been repositioned & a power shower added.

The pump is positioned under the bath.

The pump is powered by a plug pushed into an ordinary socket in the next room. IE hole drilled through the wall for flex to pass through, plug on the end & pushed into the upstairs ring main socket in a spare room.

HOWEVER - - - - My main concern (but I wonder if it should be on a switched fused spur outside the bathroom????) is when the wire enters the bathroom it enters a rose type junction box & then another wire is joined to the junction box to continue to the pump. This rose type juction box is directly under the bath............ Now to me this is a major hazard. IE electrical junction box placed directly under the plug hole, waste pipe & taps of a bath....

I stress this is not under the floorboards, if you take the bath panel off it is there in front of you.


The question is:

Is the above compliant with 17th Edition/Part P?

It has also just come into my head that the metal power shower may not be earthed directly, is this done via the earthing of the pump.

PS: The pump is pretty much sat loose on the floor below the pipework also..

Homersimpson

I don't have my copy of the 17th to hand, its at the office but from memory I think the area under the bath falls outside of the zones and hence restrictions as long as it can only be accessed with a tool.

If it were me I would make sure that it was hard wired into the ringmain (or put on its own circuit would be better) and served by an RCD.

Cable through the wall to a plug smacks of cowboy to me, can you see any spur marks in the floor!

1984ReturnsForReal_2

Homersimpson wrote: »

can you see any spur marks in the floor!

What is a "spur mark"?

Its wired as above.

I think but I dont know:

1) The pump should be wired to an external fused spur off the ring main with an RCD fitted
2) It is illegal for a junction box to be fitted loose below a bath resting on top of the floorboards
3) The Shower (metal wall shower) should be earth bonded.
4) If the shower has a removable head it should have a double check valve fitted.

However I am more bother with the immediate risk of electrocution that contamination bearing in mind they recently had a leak from the waste due to poor fitting.

But like I said I don't know the law on electrics.

ormus

whether its not legal or not is neither here nor there, its certainly not "best practice".
a DIYer wouldnt even do that!

1984ReturnsForReal_2

ormus wrote: »

whether its not legal or not is neither here nor there, its certainly not "best practice".
a DIYer wouldnt even do that!

I think it is what matters.

But you are right, a DIYer wouldn't even do it unless they had a suicide wish.

Owain_Moneysaver

"spur mark" - did the plumber tie his horse up to the front gate?

zax47

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

What is a "spur mark"?

Something left on your floorboards by a COWBOY !! Look for horse !!!!!! outside on the drive too.

I think but I dont know:

1) The pump should be wired to an external fused spur off the ring main with an RCD fitted

Use of a fused spur would be advisable. The whole installation may already be RCD protected back at the consumer unit. ("fuse box", CU)

2) It is illegal for a junction box to be fitted loose below a bath resting on top of the floorboards

BS7671:2008, 17th IEE edition wiring regs are NOT law - merely guidance for best practice. It is not against these regs to put a junction box or anything else under a bath - it is not a restricted zone. However, using a junction box with screw terminals is not acceptable anymore as it must be accessible for maintenance and inspection. The very rule that allows you to put things under a bath - as it is not accessible without tools, prevents using a JB - as it's not accessible without tools! You can use a "maintenance free" JB, or another more permanent connection method like Wagos.

3) The Shower (metal wall shower) should be earth bonded.

You probably mean equipotential bonding (definitely NOT earth bonding) - but not necessary if the whole installation is RCD protected back at the CU. 17th edition regs allow for no equipotential bonding if the circuits are RCD protected.

4) If the shower has a removable head it should have a double check valve fitted.

Meh, it's pipes - I'm just a sparky!

However I am more bother with the immediate risk of electrocution that contamination bearing in mind they recently had a leak from the waste due to poor fitting.

But like I said I don't know the law on electrics.

Means of electrocution? Will they have exposed body parts under the bath whilst it's leaking?

Owain_Moneysaver

zax47 wrote: »

However, using a junction box with screw terminals is not acceptable anymore as it must be accessible for maintenance and inspection. The very rule that allows you to put things under a bath - as it is not accessible without tools, prevents using a JB - as it's not accessible without tools!

Accessible using a tool counts as accessible for the purposes of maintenance and inspection - otherwise we couldn't have screw terminals on any wiring accessory, never mind junction boxes. And if there isn't a suitable access hatch then screw terminals could not be used on the pump itself.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

zax47 wrote: »

Use of a fused spur would be advisable. The whole installation may already be RCD protected back at the consumer unit. ("fuse box", CU) - It is plugged into a double socket on the upstairs ring & I am pretty certain this is RCD protected at the Consumer Unit.



BS7671:2008, 17th IEE edition wiring regs are NOT law - merely guidance for best practice. It is not against these regs to put a junction box or anything else under a bath - it is not a restricted zone. However, using a junction box with screw terminals is not acceptable anymore as it must be accessible for maintenance and inspection. The very rule that allows you to put things under a bath - as it is not accessible without tools, prevents using a JB - as it's not accessible without tools! You can use a "maintenance free" JB, or another more permanent connection method like Wagos. - Thank you



You probably mean equipotential bonding (definitely NOT earth bonding) - but not necessary if the whole installation is RCD protected back at the CU. 17th edition regs allow for no equipotential bonding if the circuits are RCD protected. Thanks


Means of electrocution? Will they have exposed body parts under the bath whilst it's leaking? No. The leak was through the waste pipe with the junction box underneath. If they were still in the bath & pulled out the plug & it leaked massively is that not a risk of electrocution

---

zax47

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Accessible using a tool counts as accessible for the purposes of maintenance and inspection - otherwise we couldn't have screw terminals on any wiring accessory, never mind junction boxes. And if there isn't a suitable access hatch then screw terminals could not be used on the pump itself.

Regulation pertains to jointing/connecting cables, not termination to fixed equipment.

27col

Homersimpson wrote: »

Cable through the wall to a plug smacks of cowboy to me, can you see any spur marks in the floor!

I don't think that 1984 got the joke.