Feed In Tariffs(FIT) Announced.

Cardew

keith_r59 wrote: »

This is the only paragraph in the spending review document which relates to Feed-In Tariffs.

"The efficiency of Feed-In Tariffs will be improved at the next formal review, rebalancing them in favour of more cost effective carbon abatement technologies. This will save £40 million in 2014-15. Support for lower value innovation and technology projects will also be reduced, saving £70 million a year on average over the Spending Review period."

But as with most things in the document the devil will be in the detail.

You saved me a post!

Definition of 'rebalancing' and 'support' in this context would be nice, especially if it saves £40 million and 70million.

Sounds like a euphemism for a reduction of subsidy!!

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

You saved me a post!

Definition of 'rebalancing' and 'support' in this context would be nice, especially if it saves £40 million and 70million.

Sounds like a euphemism for a reduction of subsidy!!

Hi

I assume that the 'rebalancing' & 'support' would relate to reductions in FiT payments on solar pv being directly transferred to alternative renewable incentives ('RHI' etc) to kickstart both customer uptake and installation sector growth for other technologies .....

shoi

Just last month the French government halved the subsidy for new installations overnight, (because it was "too popular", ie they decided that they had reached their target sooner than they expected)

Really, overnight!

Don't hang about too long.

Cardew

shoi wrote: »

Just last month the French government halved the subsidy for new installations overnight, (because it was "too popular", ie they decided that they had reached their target sooner than they expected)

Don't hang about too long.

Are the French subsidies paid for in the same manner as UK i.e. a levy on electricity customers that is reflected in higher prices, or from the Government?

That is a question, not a statement.

France of course invested heavily in nuclear power so have a huge generating capacity.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

Are the French subsidies paid for in the same manner as UK i.e. a levy on electricity customers that is reflected in higher prices, or from the Government?

That is a question, not a statement.

France of course invested heavily in nuclear power so have a huge generating capacity.

Hi Cardew/All

International FiTs summarised ..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_incentives_for_photovoltaics#France

Latest FiT change in France (see article) seems to be a 12% reduction (not halved) in September, but this only applies to ground mounted systems (not roof). It must also be recognised that the solar industry is more mature in France when compared to the UK .... http://www.electroiq.com/index/display/photovoltaics-article-display/8118091712/articles/Photovoltaics-World/industry-news/2010/august/france-mulls_fits.html ......

Note to all ...... do not 'panic' buy based on rumours which are likely spread by the industry to maket their products and maintain margins which would otherwise be unsustainable ..... major installers were offering price reductions of 10% in late summer and withdrew them in the period running up to the spending review, conveniently just at the time that the FiT reduction rumours began. Panel prices have fallen by over 10% and inverters by around 30% this year, so the installers' margins have increased considerably ..... haggle now for at least 10%, or wait for the anticipated round of price reductions early next year ......

HTH

shoi

zeupater wrote: »

Latest FiT change in France (see article) seems to be a 12% reduction (not halved) in September

news article in French:
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualite/top-news/20100929.REU0309/la-france-veut-reduire-le-credit-d-impot-des-panneaux-solaires.html

In France you not only get a higher FIT rate 0.58€ (say £0.50) you also get a subsidy on installation of 50% of the equipment cost up to 8400€. It is this subsidy that was cut in half to 25%. If I hadn't jumped at the offer early this year my payback time would have gone from 5years to 7years (which is still a bribe, and I can't understand why they think it's a good way to spend people's money but anyway)

I can't answer the question about who pays for the FIT, this is France after all so industry and government are very intertwined.. What we do is bill EDF (Electricity de France) once a year.

shoi

zeupater wrote: »

Note to all ...... do not 'panic' buy based on rumours which are likely spread by the industry to maket their products and maintain margins which would otherwise be unsustainable ....
HTH

I'm not involved in the industry in any way.

Mcfi5dhc

keith_r59 wrote: »

This is the only paragraph in the spending review document which relates to Feed-In Tariffs.

"The efficiency of Feed-In Tariffs will be improved at the next formal review, rebalancing them in favour of more cost effective carbon abatement technologies. This will save £40 million in 2014-15. Support for lower value innovation and technology projects will also be reduced, saving £70 million a year on average over the Spending Review period."

But as with most things in the document the devil will be in the detail.

I don't get it - £40 million savings in 2014-15. Savings against what?

How much has the government paid out so far in FIT in 2010? £0 (fact)
Projection for 2011 - £0
Projection for 2012 - £0
Projection for 2013 - £0
Projection for 2014 - £0

So, how do they save £40Million? Sack all of the DECC? Or are they being a bit sneaky and comparing apples to pears

If they cut FIT (which they will), this will only affect electricity bills for people, it will not affect the national debt

Anyone enlighten me?
Thanks

zeupater

shoi wrote: »

news article in French:
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualite/top-news/20100929.REU0309/la-france-veut-reduire-le-credit-d-impot-des-panneaux-solaires.html

In France you not only get a higher FIT rate 0.58€ (say £0.50) you also get a subsidy on installation of 50% of the equipment cost up to 8400€. It is this subsidy that was cut in half to 25%. If I hadn't jumped at the offer early this year my payback time would have gone from 5years to 7years (which is still a bribe, and I can't understand why they think it's a good way to spend people's money but anyway)

I can't answer the question about who pays for the FIT, this is France after all so industry and government are very intertwined.. What we do is bill EDF (Electricity de France) once a year.

Hi shoi

Thanks for the feedback.

I know a few people in France who have Solar and have an idea what it cost them. As your installation seems to be newer than theirs, could you provide details of the installation and an idea of the cost breakdown for those who are interested in comparing current UK installation costs against what is available in Europe ?

Regarding the note on panic buying .... I am in regular face-to-face contact with a reasonable number of people who are currently receiving quotations on solar pv in the UK, both as individuals and a group in a nearby village who are looking at a heavily discounted installation for a number of properties, and literally everyone of them has mentioned that the FiT reduction has been pushed at them as a sales ploy and this started in September. I am happy to see that you are not linked to the industry, therefore I apologise if any offence was taken. I was attempting to ensure that everyone looking into installations is aware of a 'sharp' business practice which is currently being employed by solar pv salesmen.

Thanks

shoi

zeupater wrote: »

Hi shoi
Thanks for the feedback.

I know a few people in France who have Solar and have an idea what it cost them. As your installation seems to be newer than theirs, could you provide details of the installation and an idea of the cost breakdown for those who are interested in comparing current UK installation costs against what is available in Europe ?

Our installation was connected in June
2520Wc (19sq m)
Estimated annual production 3145kWh (south facing in south of France)
material (panels, inverter, cable, feed in box) 16800€,
labour 2000€,
VAT 5.5% 1032€.
Less tax credit 50% of 16800
total 11400€, at todays rate a bit over £10K.

You might notice that the prices are higher than in UK - erm yes they always are, I just spent £2000 on replacing a combi boiler

At 0.58€ per kwH we are specified to get annual FIT of 1824€ Payback 6 years.

The 0.58€ is guaranteed and inflation proofed for 20 years. the panels are guaranteed for 25years at a certain output, the inverter for 10 years.
So far we have produced 1400kWh in 4 months, so we seem to be well on track.

There was another regional grant available of 2500€ (which would have reduce the install cost to 8900€), but our income was just too high (dammit). You get the tax credit even if you don't pay that much tax, ie they send you a cheque, but I think you do have to be French tax resident.

The panels have to be European made to qualify for the grant (I expect thats illegal hey ho). I think you could buy cheaper, but our vendor did turn up on the day and didn't add any extras. There are a number of one man and a dog outfits trying to jump on the bandwagon.

What do I think? The economics are fantastic. Pay £10K and get about £1500 a year for the next 20 years. Irresistible.

Why government thinks that this bribe is necessary to get solar up and running I don't know. I think they should instead just make it compulsory on any new build. That'll cut out the cost (and villainy) of all the high pressure selling, and just bring it into a normal building thing. I reckon Barratt's could get it done for, oh £3K maybe on a new build and there's something over 100,000 new houses a year. Plus schools hospitals factories and so on. So that's my idea.

Steve