Feed In Tariffs(FIT) Announced.

Dave_Fowler

On the MSE forum thread 'The Great Get Paid to Generate Energy Hunt', Yakky58 has posted his 2009-2010 month by month figures for his 2kWp PV system in Hampshire (post 184). Feeding his location and PV system details into the Prediction Utility on the PVGIS site shows that for 2009-2010 he has generated above the predicted output for virtually every month.

A graph of his figures follow the predicted figures, but are about 10% higher. OK lets say his system is more efficient than the PVGIS model, but I was expecting to find that the output would have been significantly lower in the winter months because the PVGIS site makes no allowance for cloud cover.

I realize a single set of readings from one PV system are only one point on a graph but it is difficult to explain why the winter figures do not appear to have been affected by cloud cover. Perhaps Hampshire has had clear skies for the past year.

John_Pierpoint

yakky58 is here - he has been generating for getting on for 4 years.
(Time for a no scaffolding re-instalation?)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/25030137#Comment_25030137

& Here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2416423

Cardew

Dave_Fowler wrote: »

On the MSE forum thread 'The Great Get Paid to Generate Energy Hunt', Yakky58 has posted his 2009-2010 month by month figures for his 2kWp PV system in Hampshire (post 184). Feeding his location and PV system details into the Prediction Utility on the PVGIS site shows that for 2009-2010 he has generated above the predicted output for virtually every month.

A graph of his figures follow the predicted figures, but are about 10% higher. OK lets say his system is more efficient than the PVGIS model, but I was expecting to find that the output would have been significantly lower in the winter months because the PVGIS site makes no allowance for cloud cover.

I realize a single set of readings from one PV system are only one point on a graph but it is difficult to explain why the winter figures do not appear to have been affected by cloud cover. Perhaps Hampshire has had clear skies for the past year.

A couple of points:

Firstly Yakky's system is slightly larger than 2kWp which would account for a couple of percentage points.

I have 10 sanyo 205w panels making 2050w in a PV array.

In the previous year he generated 1,924kWh, this year 2,059kWh so 7% more.

Not sure what you mean by "the winter figures do not appear to have been affected by cloud cover."

As I posted in that thread what was a surprise was just how much the output was reduced in the winter. In the 4 months - Nov to Feb incl - it only generated 209kWh - just 10% of the annual total.

Dave_Fowler

Cardew wrote: »

A couple of points:

Firstly Yakky's system is slightly larger than 2kWp which would account for a couple of percentage points.



In the previous year he generated 1,924kWh, this year 2,059kWh so 7% more.

Not sure what you mean by "the winter figures do not appear to have been affected by cloud cover."

As I posted in that thread what was a surprise was just how much the output was reduced in the winter. In the 4 months - Nov to Feb incl - it only generated 209kWh - just 10% of the annual total.

What I meant by "the winter figures do not appear to have been affected by cloud cover." was that the figures he obtained from his PV panels were very similar to the values predicted by the PVGIS application and that application assumes clear sky values.

Having rechecked the figures and looking at the output during the summer months I can now see that there has been a significant drop in output during the winter months - about 5% below the clear-sky predictions, but the summer output was 20 - 40% above predictions. Assuming his system is performing better than the standard used, all in all there was a significant drop below the clear-sky predicted output during the winter.

zeupater

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Well I'm starting to think abot the Tesco route too. It looks to me like a number of smaller local installers are in it to make a substantial 'quick buck' and then run for the hills .................

.............. the other came around four weeks ago and promised a quote within a week, I'm still waiting ... seems like asking some relevant questions after the usual 'investment opportunity' and 'payback calculations' based on an 'anticipated' installation cost of '£x' convinced them that quoting an overinflated price was probably just not worthwhile, I might be wrong and they're just trying to negotiate a source of the illusive GTIs, but I'll not hold my breath....

......... The way I currently see it is it'll be a decision between getting a quote from Tesco to gain some form of continuity confidence, or waiting for the market to settle down for a while (and probably the prices too !!)

I'll keep everyone informed of developments.

Hi All

I said I'd keep everyone informed, so ....

Well after chasing the quote it's finally arrived ..... not silly money, but probably needs to come down by 30% or so to be competitive, no details of materials or makes of equipment, lead time given as 'typically ...', payment terms are deposit %, delivery % & commissioning % (as if !!), no schedule of discussed work to be done (opportunity for adding extras ?), one year guarantee on installation, poly not monocrystaline, and on, and on .............. Oh, and the installed kWp has been adjusted to a standard offering using small panels which they want to supply, not what was requested, I guess that this is to match a standard pallet load quantity.

I'm going to request clarification on a few points, but I reckon it's probably now going to be better to hold back on the ordering and see what the 'Autumn Sales :rotfl:' do to prices ..... no hurry.

Who needs MCS ? .... whatever happened to ISO9000 ?


Regards
Z

mysterons

I finally received my quote for Solar PV via Tesco a couple of days ago. It's a big house on the East coast near the Wash. Just like another Tesco customer has posted over at Navitron forums they've quoted me for a 4.2kW system . 24 Sharp 175w panels with SMA 3300 inverter.
I initially had wanted an under 4kW setup in order to get the 41p top rate of FIT's so was disappointed to get a offered a system that's only going to qualify for the 36p per unit.
However I've run the figures over at the energysavingtrust cashback calculator and for a 3.8kW setup assuming someones at home most of the day and 25% exported it's 3300kwh output totalling £1708pa.
Using the same criteria a 4.2kW system gets 3647kwh and income totalling £1699pa. As you can see less than a tenner difference despite the 4.2kW system only getting 36 pence.
I've decided to accept the Tesco quote of £14999 for a 4.2kW setup. Price seems ok despite me evidently needing non-standard scaffolding and a consumer unit upgrade adding £262 and £105 respectively.
These additions however were offset by my reply to an offer of a £500 off voucher from Tesco which came through the post during the long wait for a survey . The voucher has been applied to my quote so bottom line is £14866 all in. Took around 2 months to get a survey, quote arrived 14 days after survey.
Hoping the suggested install date of somewhere less than 6 weeks is true and I catch the tail end of the summer to generate a few kW before the days start to draw in again .

Cardew

mysterons wrote: »

I finally received my quote for Solar PV via Tesco a couple of days ago. It's a big house on the East coast near the Wash. Just like another Tesco customer has posted over at Navitron forums they've quoted me for a 4.2kW system . 24 Sharp 175w panels with SMA 3300 inverter.
I initially had wanted an under 4kW setup in order to get the 41p top rate of FIT's so was disappointed to get a offered a system that's only going to qualify for the 36p per unit.
However I've run the figures over at the energysavingtrust cashback calculator and for a 3.8kW setup assuming someones at home most of the day and 25% exported it's 3300kwh output totalling £1708pa.
Using the same criteria a 4.2kW system gets 3647kwh and income totalling £1699pa. As you can see less than a tenner difference despite the 4.2kW system only getting 36 pence.
I've decided to accept the Tesco quote of £14999 for a 4.2kW setup. Price seems ok despite me evidently needing non-standard scaffolding and a consumer unit upgrade adding £262 and £105 respectively.

As I have cast myself in the role of 'solar sceptic' in some people's eyes, I'll lead with my chin again and comment on your figures.

Have you read the posts from #256 in this thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1838505

Essentially McFi who has had a small system for a couple of years has only managed to use 50% of his generated output in the house and he has an export meter to verify that fact.

He has a wife at home during the day(and two young children?). He has opinioned that if he had a big system(but still smaller than yours) he would only be able to use 15% of his generated output in the house.

It really is very difficult to use your sort of 'non-linear' output in a house during daylight hours and I find it difficult to envisage how you could use 75% (some 2,700kWh) in the house. This is approx 500% more than McFi managed.

Also in your calculations you appear to have costed your 'saved' electricity at 13p/kWh. If you are intent on Money saving it surely is possible to get tier 2 electricity at 7p to 8p for a kWh? and that is a fairer figure?

It seems to me that you have over-estimated your savings on the electricity used in the house by a good £200 to £300.

zeupater

mysterons wrote: »

I finally received my quote for Solar PV via Tesco a couple of days ago .... they've quoted me for a 4.2kW system . 24 Sharp 175w panels with SMA 3300 inverter.
I initially had wanted an under 4kW setup in order to get the 41p top rate of FIT's so was disappointed to get a offered a system that's only going to qualify for the 36p per unit ..............

Hi

SMA3300 Inverter ....... mmmmmm ..... looks like it might be an opportunity to query the quotation. According to the tecspec on this inverter the max AC output is 3600W, nominal AC 3300W and max DC 3820W ....... so it looks like the system as a whole could never surpass the 4kWp threshold and achieve 4.2 kWp as it is limited by the inverter :eek: .... my guess is that this is simply to keep the installation below 16A/Phase and therefore easy for the installer (no need for contact with the network operators)

Questions clear ??

Don't you just love this subject ..... obfuscation by design/designed by idiots (whichever, you choose) .... but I'd be tempted to request that either a couple of panels are left in the shed (ebay ?) or they actually balance the system properly (I'm no expert, however, something doesn't stack up here ?????)

Z

Cardew

Must say I agree with the post above!

I find it extraordinary to see why Tesco would offer a 4.2kWp system. Even leaving out the ability of the Inverter to cope with that load, for the sake of 0.2kWp you are losing some £200 a year in FIT's.

yakky58

Hi back after the retirement from meaningful work.

June 2010 just finished and was the best month ever 306 kwH generated and 155 of those exported.
I did clean the panels in May I am not sure if that accounts for much but my reasoning is bird droppings could affect the generation as could accumulated dust and grime. Anyway best month ever!

I checked on my inverter, a Fronius which captures all sorts of data one being highest generation... that is for a 5 minute period. Mine is 2156 watts which is over the rating for the panels.... 10X 205w = 2050 watts. Unfortunately it doesn't capture when that happened.

I have calculated my FIT for April/May/June quarter 844 kwH generated and 497 exported. So around £90 to come back when SSE get their act together.

Have just fixed the DHW too, that is another tale to be told....