music license and debt collection

tjanec1212

We received a bill from PPI four months ago to pay for the music license. We have only had a small shop and two part time staff. They didn't take any measurements of our shop size or ask about the number of staff. They just sent us a bill for 300 pounds. We ignored it.

Today a debt recovery agency sent us a letter and asked us to pay the bill. The funny thing is that they didn't even know that we were a limited company and put the wrong company name on the letter.

Shall I carry on ignoring it?

Thanks for your advice.

moneypooh

Why ignore it?? This could of been dealt with in the first instance and prevented it getting any further.

I'd call them and get it sorted. If you do need a licence then you need to get one.

Blackpool_Saver

http://www.fitpromusic.co.uk/shopping/ProcessRequest.cfm/fuseaction/FPMusicUKhome.PPL

musicgirl

I was just wondering if you'd managed to get this sorted?

As the link above says, you do need a PPL licence to play any kind of recorded music in a public place (whether radio, CDs, MP3s etc).

However, depending on why they've written to you it's likely that they've assumed that you've been playing music in your shop for some time. Legally, it's actually possible for PPL to backdate their charges by 6 years, but if you haven't had any contact with them they will most likely have charged for both a current year's licence and one previous years fees. So, if you can give them a date when you started playing music, it's easy to reduce the fee.

As far as size etc is concerned (and I'm not sure if things are still exactly the same), they've probably just assumed you're on the smallest scale which used to be for up to 100 sq m. The number of staff you have is not relevant to the charges.

HTH

SailorSam

On our local radio there were calls yesterday from businesses who had received these bills and thought they were unfair as the radio (music) was not there to entertain the public but merely for the staff Often only 1 or 2 people.
The radio managed to get a spokesman from the collection agency on, he said for a small business the amount due should not be any more than £30/£50 per annum.

DCodd

Ring them, ask them for the invoice number that they are chasing and then if it is for a licence tell them that you have not paid because they have not provided a contract to sign. If they say that they do not issue contracts, remind them that as an end user and a business you are legally bound to be able to prove your expenditure of overheads and that this will require a formal contract. You might also want to remind them that without a contract you could not possibly know what the limitation of the licence would be, i.e. selling on the music.

musicgirl

SailorSam wrote: »

On our local radio there were calls yesterday from businesses who had received these bills and thought they were unfair as the radio (music) was not there to entertain the public but merely for the staff Often only 1 or 2 people.
The radio managed to get a spokesman from the collection agency on, he said for a small business the amount due should not be any more than £30/£50 per annum.

Unfortunately, I think the costs quoted may be somewhat out of date. The law was changed a few years ago to allow PPL to licence the use of radio as well as recorded (ie CD) music and as a result of this an introductory £50 charge for premises playing the radio only was used for the 1st year. Since then the charge has been the same for recorded music - somewhere around £100 a year plus VAT.

Also, as far as the law is concerned, it doesn't matter why you are playing the music. A shop is a public place and if you wish to play music in it, for whatever reason, you do need to have a licence for it.

DCodd

musicgirl wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think the costs quoted may be somewhat out of date. The law was changed a few years ago to allow PPL to licence the use of radio as well as recorded (ie CD) music and as a result of this an introductory £50 charge for premises playing the radio only was used for the 1st year. Since then the charge has been the same for recorded music - somewhere around £100 a year plus VAT.

Also, as far as the law is concerned, it doesn't matter why you are playing the music. A shop is a public place and if you wish to play music in it, for whatever reason, you do need to have a licence for it.

That is not exactly correct, the PRS are now able to collect on behalf of the PPL, however one would question the need for a PPL as shops & Restaurants are usually subject to a PRS licence only unless they are using a TV based system when a PPL would also be required. A PRS licence for a small business is around £45 pa but is calculated on potential listeners and not space so a shop has a greater potential "listening audience" than a small business.

wuckfit

Just to be clear - A PRS licence is for playing copyrighted music, whether it be on CD, Radio or a live performance.
A PPL licence is required for playing 'mechanical copyright' so for all intents and purposes CD, Cassette and Vinyl.
So if you're a shop playing the radio, you don't require a PPL licence. if you're playing CDs you probably need both.

There is royalty free music you can obtain which doesn't require PRS licencing (not sure about the PPL in this particular instance).

musicgirl

DCodd wrote: »

That is not exactly correct, the PRS are now able to collect on behalf of the PPL, however one would question the need for a PPL as shops & Restaurants are usually subject to a PRS licence only unless they are using a TV based system when a PPL would also be required. A PRS licence for a small business is around £45 pa but is calculated on potential listeners and not space so a shop has a greater potential "listening audience" than a small business.

Sorry to go on, but PRS and PPL are two separate and entirely distinct companies. It would be impossible for one to issue a licence on behalf of the other.

PRS licences on behalf of composers and music publishers and PPL on behalf of record companies and recording artists. Because of this although the two companies perform a very similar function, they have conflicting interests.

It is not possible to get a PPL licence through the PRS - I just checked the website to be sure!!

DCodd

musicgirl wrote: »

Sorry to go on, but PRS and PPL are two separate and entirely distinct companies. It would be impossible for one to issue a licence on behalf of the other.

PRS licences on behalf of composers and music publishers and PPL on behalf of record companies and recording artists. Because of this although the two companies perform a very similar function, they have conflicting interests.

It is not possible to get a PPL licence through the PRS - I just checked the website to be sure!!

You are of course correct, the PRS collect on behalf of the MCPS and not PPL.

If the OP is playing a radio they would not need a PPL but a PRS licence only (and that is debatable). The PPL would only be needed if they play prerecorded music formats and / or a TV.