A really interesting problem...friend has been shafted. Who can help?

[Deleted User]

I've got a fascinating problem to share with you. Unfortunately one of my friends has ended up in a real pickle.

My friend owned a motorbike that they wanted to sell, so they took it to a (reputable) local dealer contact of theirs. They weren't friends, but they knew each other.

The dealer said that they would sell the bike on their behalf (and they set a reserve price) and would give them a call if it goes. If it doesn't sell after a month, then come back and take the bike.

Anyway, after a month, nothing heard from the salesperson, so my friend pays them a visit and finds:

The dealership has gone into liquidation
Their bike has been sold
The dealer didn't notify them
They are now in a long list of creditors and have been advised by the administrators that they are not going to see their money.

Now, here's the really interesting bit.

They contacted the DVLA who told that them the motorbike has been re-registered (presumably with the purchaser's details) but that 'because of data protection' they can't tell my friend who that purchaser was.

My friend is arguing that they do not own the bike, because legal title has not passed onto them. e.g. the saleperson was just acting as an agent for my friend - the dealer was never the registered owner of the vehicle, so - as a lawyer might say - nemo dat quod non habet - and my friend remains legal owner of the vehicle.

My friend reported the matter to the police but they are not interested as it's a private matter. The DVLA won't help because of Data Protection.

So, my friend is now out of a motorbike and hasn't received the £2,000 they should have.

Any thoughts on what they can do? It seems totally unfair that they've ended up in this position, but this case seems to fall into so many grey areas it's causing them a headache!

maninthestreet

The DVLA seem to be quite happy to sell details of registered keepers of vehicles to PP companies.
Has your friend submitted a V888 form to the DVLA, and had the request for the keeper's details rejected?

wifeforlife

Surely it could be reported as stolen, then the police will have to make a case for it - that's really an awful thing to happen!

That guy wouldn't know what hit him if he done that on me, I'd be getting even!

maninthestreet

cathy2702 wrote: »

Surely it could be reported as stolen, then the police will have to make a case for it - that's really an awful thing to happen!

That guy wouldn't know what hit him if he done that on me, I'd be getting even!

It hasn't been stolen. The dispute over ownership is a civil, not criminal matter.

[Deleted User]

maninthestreet wrote: »

It hasn't been stolen. The dispute over ownership is a civil, not criminal matter.

Exactly!

Really, no-one seems to be able to help so they're left to their own devices to sort it out.

Essentially there are several issues at play:

When they gave the bike to the dealer, did they pass ownership over to them or was the dealer acting merely as an agent?

When the dealer sold it to the purchaser, what happened to the money? If agent = wasn't their money.

When the new owner registered their ownership with the DVLA, this would have taken title from my friend, surely? Is this proof that the dealer was an agent and not owner?

It would seem to me that the dealer had no legal title to the bike and so it is the ultimate final purchaser who will end up losing out, as they've bought a bike from a dealer without checking that the dealer had ownership? But then again, that was never the intention from my friend's perspective.

[Deleted User]

Incidentally, the police did give them a crime number, but only because they aren't sure of whether it's a criminal matter or not and so they provided a reference for them for now in the event that it does become a criminal matter later.

But as others have said, it seems to be a civil matter at present.

maninthestreet

Deleted_User wrote: »

Exactly!

Really, no-one seems to be able to help so they're left to their own devices to sort it out.

Essentially there are several issues at play:

When they gave the bike to the dealer, did they pass ownership over to them or was the dealer acting merely as an agent?

When the dealer sold it to the purchaser, what happened to the money? If agent = wasn't their money.

When the new owner registered their ownership with the DVLA, this would have taken title from my friend, surely? Is this proof that the dealer was an agent and not owner?

It would seem to me that the dealer had no legal title to the bike and so it is the ultimate final purchaser who will end up losing out, as they've bought a bike from a dealer without checking that the dealer had ownership? But then again, that was never the intention from my friend's perspective.

Registered Keeper of a vehicle does not confer legal title to the said vehicle. Has your friend sent the DVLA a correctly filled out V888 form?

negg

When the new owner registered their ownership with the DVLA

First of all, there isn't such a thing as a "registered owner".

The DVLA V5 document is a "registered keeper" but does not prove ownership. An example is a leased car where the finance company is the owner but the person leasing the car is the "registered keeper".

Unfortunately, the only real way to prove ownership is by receipt of purchase. As the new owner will have a receipt newer than your friends, you can see the difficulty.

The new owner will need to fill in a form as they won't have the V5. The DVLA write to the current keeper on record (which should be your friend) to confirm that the vehicle hasn't been stolen or in their possession. Your friend will need to respond to this form when it comes through.

[Deleted User]

My friend has told them though that the new owner has 'registered' (not sure of the exact wording) the vehicle with them though already. What would that mean though? Perhaps 'registered' isn't the correct word.

peachyprice

Has your friend contacted the legal team from his bike insurance, surely they'll be able to help?

[Deleted User]

peachyprice wrote: »

Has your friend contacted the legal team from his bike insurance, surely they'll be able to help?

I'm not sure yet...but I expect they are in the process of doing this.