Permission To Sublet Denied My Freeholder in Lease Help!

Fire_Fox

PasturesNew wrote: »

Well, you're an idiot then. A selfish idiot.

Think what you're saying: I don't give a monkey's chuff about some dear old soul, who has paid good money in fees and deposits to move in, I'll just turf them out on the street, unsettle them, put them under stress and into panic - possibly without them even having the spare cash to find and secure another home.

You're just an OAP abuser. You should be ashamed of yourself. That aside - you can't. It's illegal. Once moved in, they'd have rights and it would take months, possibly courts and bailiffs to get them out. You appear to know nothing.

You can't go round willy nilly serving notice. Usually, when people move into that type of supportive environment it's "for life", or until they're carted off to more intensive care (like your own relative). They aren't happy-go-lucky teens who want to be moving about, people in this type of accommodation pretty much expect to be there for life.

No, the main problem is you. Regular readers will be surprised at what I've put here, but you've really angered me. You're a horrid person, you really are.

:T:T:T:T:T And the papers would have a field day with the case whilst the poor dear was being evicted for being the innocent party to an illegal tenancy. I suspect the OP's mum would not be particularly proud.

steadynerve

Yes thanks for your posts. I realise the the assuracy shorthold Tenancy gives tenure for the first six months and then after that could be say six months notice. I don't think in practise that this would be a problem as I'm guessing that any court case would take far longer than six months to come to court. And then the tenant would be on 1 or 2 months notice (as agreed in the lease) just like every other person in the land on a AST. I relaise being asked to leave by the landlordos not nice but this is of course one of the main reasons people do buy. Everyone on an AST has to except this can happen and they also have the right to serve notice on th landlord wit te same notice period.
The flats are available to anyone over 60 so lots of people could be in full time employment lead fulll and active lives not have any mental impairments understand all the risks and yet still be quiet happy to proceed. And this is exacltyl the tenant we would look for if we dedcided to go ahead.

HellsGranny

Good grief man, you have been told by you can't sublet, so accept it, sell the place and move on.

Any pensioner (myself included) would be very upset and probably made ill by having to uproot again so quickly, especially as pensioners in this kind of development like to make friends with their neighbours, and subsequent uprooting can make anyone ill, it's one of the biggest stress factors there is in life.

Quit being selfish and imagine your aged relative in the position you are attempting to inflict on another.:mad:

Cheers, Hell's Granny

steadynerve

Thanks again for your replies.

i think some of the replies are actually a bit insulting to anyone over 60!

are people saying that there isn't really a rental market for people over 60. As very few people choose to rent over 60 as they couldn't face the posiibilty of possibly having to leave - the same risk that all other AST holders also face.

i would have thought there could be pleny of situations where it would suit someone interests. eg someone wanting to try out this type of accomadation before buying. Or someone maybe selling large family home and wanting short term base in uk before buying a flat in the sun or wanting to try out a particlur location before committing to buying there. ie all the ususal reasons younger people choose to rent as well.

I appreciate this option won't suit everyone but we are just talking about renting to someone fully aware of the situation and yet it still suits there circumstances. we are not talking about hiding the positin from either the tenant or the freeholder.

BitterAndTwisted

PasturesNew wrote: »

Well, you're an idiot then. A selfish idiot.

Think what you're saying: I don't give a monkey's chuff about some dear old soul, who has paid good money in fees and deposits to move in, I'll just turf them out on the street, unsettle them, put them under stress and into panic - possibly without them even having the spare cash to find and secure another home.

You're just an OAP abuser. You should be ashamed of yourself.

That aside - you can't. It's illegal. Once moved in, they'd have rights and it would take months, possibly courts and bailiffs to get them out. You appear to know nothing.



You can't go round willy nilly serving notice. Usually, when people move into that type of supportive environment it's "for life", or until they're carted off to more intensive care (like your own relative). They aren't happy-go-lucky teens who want to be moving about, people in this type of accommodation pretty much expect to be there for life.


No, the main problem is you.

Regular readers will be surprised at what I've put here, but you've really angered me. You're a horrid person, you really are.

Dearest PasturesNew, I am completely and utterly in awe of your temperance. I would have expressed my feelings MUCH more forthrightly.

Respect!

silvercar

steadynerve wrote: »

Yes thanks for your posts. I realise the the assuracy shorthold Tenancy gives tenure for the first six months and then after that could be say six months notice. I don't think in practise that this would be a problem as I'm guessing that any court case would take far longer than six months to come to court. And then the tenant would be on 1 or 2 months notice (as agreed in the lease) just like every other person in the land on a AST. I relaise being asked to leave by the landlordos not nice but this is of course one of the main reasons people do buy. Everyone on an AST has to except this can happen and they also have the right to serve notice on th landlord wit te same notice period.
The flats are available to anyone over 60 so lots of people could be in full time employment lead fulll and active lives not have any mental impairments understand all the risks and yet still be quiet happy to proceed. And this is exacltyl the tenant we would look for if we dedcided to go ahead.

Your guessing, it could come to fruitition much quicker. Plus the freeholder and/or other leaseholders could make things very uncomfortable for your tenant. What would you do if the tenant complains that people keep tellign her/him that she/ he shouldn't be there or the managing agent refuses to provide services to the tenant as they only have an obligation to owners?

bitsandpieces

Even if you're not concerned about the tenant, think about the legal fees. If you're expecting to be able to drag the court case out for 6 months plus, don't you think they'd add up :eek: Given that the flat is an easy asset for the freeholders to recover money from - and you'll have p***ed them off royally by subletting without consent and then dragging out legal proceedings - I'd expect them to come after you for all possible costs after winning the case.

Fire_Fox

steadynerve wrote: »

Yes thanks for your posts. I realise the the assuracy shorthold Tenancy gives tenure for the first six months and then after that could be say six months notice. I don't think in practise that this would be a problem as I'm guessing that any court case would take far longer than six months to come to court. And then the tenant would be on 1 or 2 months notice (as agreed in the lease) just like every other person in the land on a AST. I relaise being asked to leave by the landlordos not nice but this is of course one of the main reasons people do buy. Everyone on an AST has to except this can happen and they also have the right to serve notice on th landlord wit te same notice period.

You can think, guess or write whatever unfair and unenforceable clauses you like in an AST: a landlord must serve a tenant with TWO MONTHS notice. That two months cannot expire before the end of the initial six month tenancy and then it might be another six months before you get the tenant out, longer if you f**k up the S21 notice, which seems highly likely given your cavalier attitude to the law.

You will not necessarily be taken to court, you may well be taken to a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal if you breach the lease. These cases are usually dealt with far more quickly than court cases as there is no need for legal representation.You should also not assume you will be given time to serve notice upon your tenants if you lose the case, as the freeholder does not have to recognise the illegal tenancy.

BTW as leaseholder it may be your MOTHER that is taken to court or an LVT, do you really want that? It would be your mother that costs were awarded against; if you have enduring power of attorney you could be deemed to have abused that power. Clever.

BitterAndTwisted

If you are not finding any of the reasons for not going ahead with this dangerous and monstrous scheme particularly compelling try this one: presumably as your aged relative is suffering dementia someone has been appointed to make decision on her behalf. This someone is obliged to make decisions in the best interests of that relative. Should decisions not be made in the best interests of the relative all responsibilities and costs involved could be placed directly upon the shoulders of the decision-maker.

PasturesNew

Fire_Fox wrote: »

You should also not assume you will be given time to serve notice upon your tenants if you lose the case, as the freeholder does not have to recognise the illegal tenancy.

This bit means: The quickie "court case" for this type of situation would mean your tenant could pretty much be evicted, maybe that day. So there she is, sitting supping tea with a friend - knock at the door - bailiffs/representatives who want her out immediately. She's got 10 minutes (it's 4.45 on a cold Friday evening in the dark) to get her stuff out before they change the locks.

How much stuff could you get out in 10 minutes? Can she come to yours now to live? I know I'd be on your doorstep screaming blue murder, with some heavies, asap .... and I am not the sort to scream blue murder or know/have any heavies ... but I'd manage it! AND ... I'd let the papers/all your neighbours know what a wicked person you are and what you'd done! I'd probably have somebody pee through your letterbox too (lots of idle nutters on the Internet) ... and daub something in paint on your house overnight ... as I said, lots of idle nutters to be found in forums, easy job.