Job at Risk of Redundancy

ebeneezer_2

Hello
I was told on Monday that my job is at risk of redundancy because now that I have trained some of the staff they are self-sufficient and no longer need me to lead projects.
I was told that as I have not worked there for over 2 years I am not entitled to redundancy pay, but they are offering a compromise agreement. The figures they gave did not add up and I have asked for a breakdown - which they have provided and the amounts are different to those given verbally. Seperately in an email referring to this initial meeting as a "Without Prejudice Discussion" I have also been sent a compromise agreement template but there are no figures or dates in it. I was informed that I need to take legal advice but presumably I can't do that until I have a specific agreement rather than a generic document?
I was told that there would be a further meeting on Monday and when I asked what the timeframe was, I was told one week. I have not been given any further information other than that I should carry on my duties as normal.
When I accepted my post it was a new role for the company. In my view, they liked what they thought I would give them but didn't fully understand what the organisational resources and responsibilities were. I have struggled to make progress and have asked for senior management support on several occasions - and it seems that the way they have chosen to deal with this is to make my role redundant. If they are claiming to be self-sufficient as the reason for the redundancy do they have to prove this in any way?
As I have not been given clear information as to the steps that will be followed, please can anyone help? Also, as I report into two managers, should they both have been present at the Without Prejudice Discussion?
I am very grateful for any advice and fully appreciate that my position is much more fortunate than many of the other posters - and to them I wish all the very best of luck.
Thank you

Lady007

Do not accept the Compromise agreement at this stage. Companies give Compromise agreements when they have not followed the rules properly or want to get rid of you no matter what. Find out which category you fall in to.

No way should the other Managers been there - I'm stunned :eek: Put an instant stop to this behaviour - unless they are owners/share holders of the Company ie need to know the detail and are in a position to negotiate with you on behalf of the Company.

Do not believe or accept any figures unless in writing and remember either side is not bound unless/until the agreement is signed by both parties. This sounds incredibly underhand to me!!

ebeneezer_2

Thanks so much for your input Lady007, it really helps me keep my chin up.
The more I talk to people the more justified I feel. I got to speak to my (excluded) Line Manager who said that they had been informed the Friday beforehand of what was to happen "as a matter of courtesy". Fortunately this Manager said that I will be a great loss and can't believe that they're getting rid of me. I am currently leading a significant project in that department but when this was brought up the LM was told it was not relevant to my role!
If anyone knows of any really good solicitors in London please pass on thier details (as long as that doesn't breach forum rules)

ebeneezer_2

Forgot to say,
from the information I can find it looks as though the consultation period should be 30 days (since I am the only one being made redundant). Not sure if anyone can verify that? If this is the case, should I have been given this information when I enquired about the timeframe - rather than just being told one week. Bullying/intimidation perhaps?

On a lighter note I got treated to a brilliant night out on Friday with two amazing colleagues who are both completely in shock and have said they feel like they are losing a limb. Life can throw some C**P at you, but friends make the world of difference. Thank goodness for friends.

dickydonkin

No way should the other Managers been there - I'm stunned :eek: Put an instant stop to this behaviour - unless they are owners/share holders of the Company ie need to know the detail and are in a position to negotiate with you on behalf of the Company.

Why not?
There is no reason why any relevant member of management cannot be involved in the consultation process - the caveat being that should an appeal be lodged against any dismissal, none of the managers/directors involved in the consultation process should be involved in the appeal hearing.

Forgot to say,
from the information I can find it looks as though the consultation period should be 30 days (since I am the only one being made redundant). Not sure if anyone can verify that? If this is the case, should I have been given this information when I enquired about the timeframe - rather than just being told one week. Bullying/intimidation perhaps?

For one redundancy, there is no defined timescale for consultation, however, meaningful consultation must take place with the affected person. The consultation period will take as long as it takes i.e. when all avenues to avoid redundancy have been exhausted and all the other formalities such as payments/outstanding holidays/notice periods etc. and similar arrangements have been concluded.

getmore4less

What are they offereing on top of the payments they have to give you?


What does not add up?


Make sure there is no claw back in the CA if you get asked to return.

ebeneezer_2

Thanks for inputs

More4Less, Not sure I understand what you mean about what they're offering on top of payments - it seems nothing
As for what didn't add up, they said I'd get 2 months salary, plus 2 months pro rata bonus and payment for 7 days remaining holiday (all taxable), but the figure they quoted was less than 2 x my monthly take home pay. When they sent the figures through electronically it was 1 month PILON, plus bonus, plus holiday (all taxable) and 2 months salary as compensation (tax free). Needless to say this total was somewhat greater than the initial sum given in the meeting.
Can't imagine I'll be asked to return - found out today that they 'got rid' of someone else "very abruptly at the end of 2009". The gossip is she was bringing in more business than the department could cope with!!!???:( Sounds like I work for a crazy company

getmore4less

You need to establish the required payments(usualy taxable) and the redundancy(tax free and <2y x gracia)

So looks like they are offering 2 months tax free on top of statutory payments if on 1 months notice.

Find out where the other person went if they were that good.

Bringing too much business can be a problem if the company cannot deliver but still needs to pay the sales person higher margin lower volume is what is needed.

KathysBoy

ebeneezer wrote: »

If anyone knows of any really good solicitors in London please pass on thier details (as long as that doesn't breach forum rules)

It is a legal requirement that an employee receives independent legal advice before entering into a Compromise Agreement. You cannot sign without this, even if you understand what it all means as it wil be invalid. Normally your employers will pay a contribution towards the cost of this legal advice, limited to a fixed sum. I think the standard amount is about £500.

You need to see an employment solicitor, not just any solicitor, AND the CA should also conain a clause which confirms the amount they will pay for the legal costs. Normally the solicitor will bill them direct as once they have explanied the CA to you, you will need to sign it, and the solicitor will sign it, and send it to the employer.

zzzLazyDaisy

How long have you worked for this company?

This may have implications for whether you accept or fight (less than 12 months and you have no right to make a claim to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal, less than two years no right to a redundancy payment)

Lady007

dpassmore wrote: »

Why not?
There is no reason why any relevant member of management cannot be involved in the consultation process - the caveat being that should an appeal be lodged against any dismissal, none of the managers/directors involved in the consultation process should be involved in the appeal hearing.


For one redundancy, there is no defined timescale for consultation, however, meaningful consultation must take place with the affected person. The consultation period will take as long as it takes i.e. when all avenues to avoid redundancy have been exhausted and all the other formalities such as payments/outstanding holidays/notice periods etc. and similar arrangements have been concluded.

Sorry but the above is utter twaddle!:eek:
Read the posts properly. The OP stated that the Managers were at the without prejudice meeting which is what i disagreed with. This meeting is not part of Redundancy Consultation meetings. Also, usually there is a confidentiality clause within these agrements banning you fom disussing the content anyway.



Consultation periods must have a time line otherwise they would go on for ever. Why would companies delay making people redundant as they still have to coninue to pay them whilst still in employment and then pay any redundany payment on top? Consultation also, is not about the formalities either - its about ways of avoiding or minimising redundancy or alternatives to Redundancy.