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Tenant in a flat about to be repossessed?!
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retrocircles
Posts: 746 Forumite
The situation...
My sister rents a flat from a landlord via an estate agency. She pays £475 per month. There have been papers served to the property under the name of 'The Occupier' to state that the property is in a lot of arrears (it looks to be over 6 months) on the mortgage & a court date has been set (March) for repossession. The mortgage is NOT a buy-to-let mortgage (which we didn't know until now) & they are in theory unauthorized tenants! I should also note she rents from the father, yet the mortgage is in the son's name, if that's of any relevance. Seems a little fishy?
What on earth should she do?
We have obviously recommended she get out of there asap. Her 6 month agreement ends ironically at the end of February. The awquard thing being she paid £1000 deposit which she won't be able to get until completely moved out of the old flat. But she will need it for the next property. The estate agents have said her deposit is safe as they have it. The other being this landlord 'seemed' very good, and agreed to allow them to have a cat. Now she's going to have the hassle of finding somewhere that will accept pets. Not to mention she's devastated to have to leave - it's ideal for work & visiting family without needing transport. And having to rent a moving van all over again!
To be honest there have been bailiffs letters previously where she has had to provide them with the landlord's details. They obviously wouldn't state what it was for, but they assumed it was unpaid council tax or electricity as there was issues with BOTH about a month after moving in - but they hadn't heard anything since.
The landlord is visiting the property tomorrow to pick up the letters. He hasn't mentioned anything else about the situation at this stage.
We're very surprised to find that the estate agent hadn't picked up on or even checked it was a suitable mortgage (buy-to-let) to have tenants on! Is there anything they can do against the estate agents? I mean, this situation has come from the son not paying the mortgage, but a little of the fault lies with the estate agents surely. They considered not paying next month's rent to use it to get out faster, but we figured the estate agent would just refuse the deposit being returned.
It just seems thoroughly unfair that they will have to spend money to move, borrow money for another deposit & go through the hassle of moving their lives just 6 months after doing so initially because of someone else's error & they have no rights because the estate agents didn't check this landlord could even have tenants!!!!
My sister rents a flat from a landlord via an estate agency. She pays £475 per month. There have been papers served to the property under the name of 'The Occupier' to state that the property is in a lot of arrears (it looks to be over 6 months) on the mortgage & a court date has been set (March) for repossession. The mortgage is NOT a buy-to-let mortgage (which we didn't know until now) & they are in theory unauthorized tenants! I should also note she rents from the father, yet the mortgage is in the son's name, if that's of any relevance. Seems a little fishy?
What on earth should she do?
We have obviously recommended she get out of there asap. Her 6 month agreement ends ironically at the end of February. The awquard thing being she paid £1000 deposit which she won't be able to get until completely moved out of the old flat. But she will need it for the next property. The estate agents have said her deposit is safe as they have it. The other being this landlord 'seemed' very good, and agreed to allow them to have a cat. Now she's going to have the hassle of finding somewhere that will accept pets. Not to mention she's devastated to have to leave - it's ideal for work & visiting family without needing transport. And having to rent a moving van all over again!
To be honest there have been bailiffs letters previously where she has had to provide them with the landlord's details. They obviously wouldn't state what it was for, but they assumed it was unpaid council tax or electricity as there was issues with BOTH about a month after moving in - but they hadn't heard anything since.
The landlord is visiting the property tomorrow to pick up the letters. He hasn't mentioned anything else about the situation at this stage.
We're very surprised to find that the estate agent hadn't picked up on or even checked it was a suitable mortgage (buy-to-let) to have tenants on! Is there anything they can do against the estate agents? I mean, this situation has come from the son not paying the mortgage, but a little of the fault lies with the estate agents surely. They considered not paying next month's rent to use it to get out faster, but we figured the estate agent would just refuse the deposit being returned.
It just seems thoroughly unfair that they will have to spend money to move, borrow money for another deposit & go through the hassle of moving their lives just 6 months after doing so initially because of someone else's error & they have no rights because the estate agents didn't check this landlord could even have tenants!!!!
Debt @ LBM 29/12/08 - £49044! Now £44684.
Fat loss 29/85lbs // £100 into £10k £243.07/£10k
HSBC Loan 9658 // HSBC CC 3484 // HSBC CC 1464 // DP's 779 // Car 0% 4851 // Halifax OD 1348 // HSBC OD 1.5k // HSBC OD 1k // Barclays OD 400 // IOMOM 4400 // S Loan 15k // Cap1 £800
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Comments
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Your sister doesn't have a contract with the agency - she has one with the landlord, they are mere intermediaries and are irrelevant to most landlord/tenant legal disputes.
As far as I'm aware, there is no legal obligation on the part of an estate agent to verify the status of the mortgage with the landlord and their financial status, though I imagine good ones will at least verify the owners got consent to let it out.
A landlord's financial situation is private and it is directly between them and the mortgage lender.
It's not the agents or landlords problem that your sister has elected to have a pet despite knowing that many landlords are averse to them.
It is the norm for a tenant to pay the next deposit before receiving the previous one back as a deposit is payable in advance and returned after the landlord has checked the condition of the previous property.
There is no obligation for an occupier to forward mail onto the previous occupant or the landlord - if your sister doesn't wish to do this, she should tell the landlord to arrange Royal Mail forwarding and stick them back in the post 'Return to Sender. Not at this address.'
The Shelter website has a section for tenants whose preperties are being repossessed by the lender, including those whose landlord haven't got consent to let.
By the way, if it isn't listed as a buy to let mortgage, it could be the case that it was originally a residential mortgage and the lender gave permission for the owner to let it out and they didn't have to change terms. Might not have consent though to do this.0 -
This is a horrible situation, and sadly becoming more common. It's really unfair that a tenant can be doing everything right, paying the rent and bills, and face eviction and bailiffs because the landlord hasn't been paying. Typically enough, agents will reference and check out the tenants (and charge them a fortune for it) but never bother to ask the landlord anything!
The government are looking at bringing in some kind of legislation, but haven't yet. So tenants still have virutally no rights in this situation, especially if the landlord lied about renting the property out. The only "right" you have is to receive that letter telling you what's happening, then another one giving a date for reposession.
It's worth getting advice ASAP though, probably from Shelter, or a local CAB or council advice place if you have them.0 -
Firstly, is the deposit actually protected in one of the three official schemes? Ring each one and check. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/DG_066383
Secondly, I would probably think about withholding rent for now, particularly if the deposit isn't protected, and they might not be able to stay for the whole of February. Don't spend it though! Play it by ear...
Thirdly, I would start looking for something ASAP, and give your one month notice to move out at the end of the 6 months.Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
It's not the agents or landlords problem that your sister has elected to have a pet despite knowing that many landlords are averse to them.
I do understand that, it's just annoying since she made the decision on the grounds that she would be in this property until she purchased. She didn't intend on moving at all in the near future.
It is the norm for a tenant to pay the next deposit before receiving the previous one back as a deposit is payable in advance and returned after the landlord has checked the condition of the previous property.
Again, I know that's the case. But it's not her fault she's having to move. She doesn't want to move, yet she is being forced to through no fault of her own. She didn't expect to move, hence has no savings for a deposit as she did when moving out initially. If she knew this was 'coming' she could have made provision for another deposit of £1000 potentially to be needed.
There is no obligation for an occupier to forward mail onto the previous occupant or the landlord - if your sister doesn't wish to do this, she should tell the landlord to arrange Royal Mail forwarding and stick them back in the post 'Return to Sender. Not at this address.'
The mail wasn't addressed to the landlord. The address was to 'The Occupier'. She is the occupier.
The Shelter website has a section for tenants whose preperties are being repossessed by the lender, including those whose landlord haven't got consent to let.
This has some excellent info, thanks very much!
By the way, if it isn't listed as a buy to let mortgage, it could be the case that it was originally a residential mortgage and the lender gave permission for the owner to let it out and they didn't have to change terms. Might not have consent though to do this.
The letter from the lender includes threats from the lender stating the terms of the mortgage, one being it cannot be let out so not sure about that. But there was limited info in the letter.Debt @ LBM 29/12/08 - £49044! Now £44684.Fat loss 29/85lbs // £100 into £10k £243.07/£10kHSBC Loan 9658 // HSBC CC 3484 // HSBC CC 1464 // DP's 779 // Car 0% 4851 // Halifax OD 1348 // HSBC OD 1.5k // HSBC OD 1k // Barclays OD 400 // IOMOM 4400 // S Loan 15k // Cap1 £8000 -
Quizzical_Squirrel wrote: »How annoying is that? I guess you just have to think that they could have been given 6 months notice wherever they lived, you have so little security of tenure as a tenant. :sad:
Just out of interest, how did you find out what type of mortgage the landlord has? Did the letting agent admit they didn't check?
The letters from the lender were addressed to 'The Occupier'. It had various threats in there about being in arrears, the court date, and emphasis on the terms of the mortgage - basically saying we know you have tenants living there (bailiffs were sent round) and this isn't allowed.Debt @ LBM 29/12/08 - £49044! Now £44684.Fat loss 29/85lbs // £100 into £10k £243.07/£10kHSBC Loan 9658 // HSBC CC 3484 // HSBC CC 1464 // DP's 779 // Car 0% 4851 // Halifax OD 1348 // HSBC OD 1.5k // HSBC OD 1k // Barclays OD 400 // IOMOM 4400 // S Loan 15k // Cap1 £8000 -
A tenant doesn't need to give notice on a fixed term agreement. The Shelter website explains how to end a fixed term agreement and the consequences of staying even a day over it because it then becomes a periodic tenancy.
But I'm not sure that an AST gets taken into account when a lender repossesses a property where they did not give consent for it to be let. I think the court gives a short period of time for a tenant to leave if they give the lender possession of the property. Shelter will advise.0 -
This is a horrible situation, and sadly becoming more common. It's really unfair that a tenant can be doing everything right, paying the rent and bills, and face eviction and bailiffs because the landlord hasn't been paying. Typically enough, agents will reference and check out the tenants (and charge them a fortune for it) but never bother to ask the landlord anything!
The government are looking at bringing in some kind of legislation, but haven't yet. So tenants still have virutally no rights in this situation, especially if the landlord lied about renting the property out. The only "right" you have is to receive that letter telling you what's happening, then another one giving a date for reposession.
It's worth getting advice ASAP though, probably from Shelter, or a local CAB or council advice place if you have them.
So true, they had to pay a fortune for checks etc as it was/is their first time renting.Debt @ LBM 29/12/08 - £49044! Now £44684.Fat loss 29/85lbs // £100 into £10k £243.07/£10kHSBC Loan 9658 // HSBC CC 3484 // HSBC CC 1464 // DP's 779 // Car 0% 4851 // Halifax OD 1348 // HSBC OD 1.5k // HSBC OD 1k // Barclays OD 400 // IOMOM 4400 // S Loan 15k // Cap1 £8000 -
Firstly, is the deposit actually protected in one of the three official schemes? Ring each one and check. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/DG_066383
Secondly, I would probably think about withholding rent for now, particularly if the deposit isn't collected, and they might not be able to stay for the whole of February. Don't spend it though! Play it by ear...
Thirdly, I would start looking for something ASAP, and give your one month notice to move out at the end of the 6 months.
I will have to check on the deposit being in a scheme.
What do you mean 'if the deposit isn't collected'? Could anything adverse happen to her by not paying rent? ie. A poor reference from the current estate agent for the next?
With the 6 months, can she give her 1 months notice at the 5 month anniversary so to move out on the 6 month anniversary... or can she not even give notice until 6 months have passed, making her actually move out at 7 months?Debt @ LBM 29/12/08 - £49044! Now £44684.Fat loss 29/85lbs // £100 into £10k £243.07/£10kHSBC Loan 9658 // HSBC CC 3484 // HSBC CC 1464 // DP's 779 // Car 0% 4851 // Halifax OD 1348 // HSBC OD 1.5k // HSBC OD 1k // Barclays OD 400 // IOMOM 4400 // S Loan 15k // Cap1 £8000 -
retrocircles wrote: »
With the 6 months, can she give her 1 months notice at the 5 month anniversary so to move out on the 6 month anniversary... or can she not even give notice until 6 months have passed, making her actually move out at 7 months?
Most fixed term contracts of 6 months do not have a clause that allows the tenant to give notice to end the contract early. Tenants with fixed term contracts are not required to give notice, though as a courtesy they should inform the landlord of their intention to renew or to leave. See the Shelter website for info on how to end a fixed term contract.
If she gives notice after the 6 month fixed term has elapsed, she will be a periodic tenant and will have to give one months notice timed to expire with when the rent period is (see the Shelter website which explains better than me the difference in how to end a fixed term or period tenancy).
A tenant can usually only leave a fixed term contract that doesn't have a notice period clause in it with the consent of their landlord, this is known as surrendering it. She should ask the landlord how flexible he is about her leaving her contract before the fixed term is up (or run her options past Shelter as the court case could impact her plans).0 -
It would have made little difference if the lender had given consent to let or had a BTL mortgage. With only a 6 month contract, the lender would have given you notice to quit, if not in time for February, then in March or April.I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0
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