New deposit laws

chili2001

N79 wrote: »

Yes you can argue that the LL made it impossible to return the keys at the end of the tenancy. Returning of the keys is usually considered to end a tenancy (as it shows that the T has given up occupation) but it is not, in fact, a legal requirement. However, you will need to be ready to argue that your notice was sufficient and that your LL had every reasonable expectation that your occupation was at an end on the 1st of January. If you notice is correct and unambiguous then this should not be a problem.

Since you will be relying on your notice (rather than notice plus return of the keys) this brings us to another question - was your notice valid and correctly served. Can you confirm the start date of the last fixed period that you signed as well as its lenght? (You say you signed it on the 31st August 2008 but you do not state the term - precision here is very important).

Signed on 1st sept 2008 for 6 month shorthold contract.

clutton_2

chili - calm down and listen to N79 and do what he suggests.....

chili2001

mlz1413 wrote: »

18 days is along time and as you resorted to recorded delivery then why you didn't use it earlier comes to my mind.

As I have already stated. We moved into our new house on the 1st and he phoned us on the 2nd saying that he was keeping our deposit until he had the work carried out to fix everything that we broke (not) and also moaned we still had the keys. I told him I was happy to return the keys straight away and only kept them as there was no answer when calling at his door twice the previous day. He said it was ok to keep them until I could come and discuss the return of the remainder of my deposit (which didn't materialise). Then he sent a very rude "report" from a local estate agent stating it was now not ok to keep the keys. As the snow came on the 4th Jan, I didn't get this letter (dated the 12th) until the 15th and was my village cut off from the nearest post office.
Although in the meantime, we had tried to drop off the keys on the 12th when went could eventually fight through the snow after my girlfriend had finished work at 4.45 and again on the 15th. There was no answer both times although you could tell someone was in.

clutton_2

"There was no answer both times although you could tell someone was in.

"why didn't you put them through his letter box..?

chili2001

clutton wrote: »

chili - calm down and listen to N79 and do what he suggests.....

Hey I'm calm. Although I'm getting sick of this whole affair and want it over with now!
As the LL has my money, they say possession is 9/10's of the law don't they? So getting it back is going to be tricky whichever way I look at at.:(

chili2001

clutton wrote: »

"There was no answer both times although you could tell someone was in.

"why didn't you put them through his letter box..?

What would be the good of that? I wanted a reciept so I could prove I returned them. Otherwise he could still say (and probally would) that I never sent them back.

N79

chili2001 wrote: »

Signed on 1st sept 2008 for 6 month shorthold contract.

Your wording here is sloppy and we need clarity in order to give you an opinion.

My question was "Can you confirm the start date of the last fixed period that you signed as well as its lenght? (You say you signed it on the 31st August 2008 but you do not state the term - precision here is very important). "

Please can you confirm the answer to this question - not when you signed the agreement as this is irrelevant.

Can you also confirm if you have written confirmation from your LL that you would be ending your tenancy on the 1st January? If you do then you can ignore all the above about the notice period being incorrect but will still need to deal with the argument that the non return of the keys could have given your LL the reasonable expectation that you were still in possession.

Here are the reasons why, in my opinion, it is so important.

If your term was the first of Sept for 6 months then you have a problem with your notice. This is because you notice has to be for at least 1 rental period. Since your rental period is monthly from the 1st day to the last day of the month this means that notice given on the 1st of December should have been for the 31 January. Notice for the 31st of December would have needed to be served on or before the 30th of November.

However, it gets worse. You left on the 1st of January so you started the January rental period and invalidated your own notice. This means that the LL could not rely on your notice to end the tenancy (and LLs are not allowed by law to end tenancies). This means that the surrender of your keys on the 18th could be taken to be your new notice - which would expire on the 28th Feb. This means you owe your LL two months rent - for January and February.

Most decent LLs don't worry about T notice periods being wrong but if you are taking your LL to court you must be aware of any weaknesses in your own case. Of course your LL may well be as ignorant of the law as most letting agents. However, you have said that they are likely to seek legal advice.....

I don't want to put you off claiming but these are issues you should understand before you start of down the court route as you may need to argue against them. Your LL deserves whatever he gets.

Given the above, maybe you should consider again going down the deposit non protection route as with that route non of the above issues matter as the mere fact that the deposit was not protected means that, even if the court orders the deposit protected instead of refunding it, you have a good chance that the court will award you 3x the deposit. The advantage of this award is that there is no right of set off against any counter claim by the LL for missing rent or damages so that you still get the 3x payment no matter what (even if the court awards you the deposit and then immediately orders you to pay it to the LL for unpaid rent).

N79

chili2001 wrote: »

What would be the good of that? I wanted a reciept so I could prove I returned them. Otherwise he could still say (and probally would) that I never sent them back.

That action was unfortunate. If you had returned the keys and the LL denied it then a court would have determined who was more likely to be telling the truth. If you could show that you had other accomodation and your moving date then the court would almost certainly have believed you.

By not returning the keys you have put yourself in a worse position.

N79

Another point.

Do you have written confirmation from your LL that you would be ending your tenancy on the 1st January? If you do then you can ignore all the above about the notice period being incorrect but will still need to deal with the argument that the non return of the keys could have given your LL the reasonable expectation that you were still in possession.

Added to the above post but reposted in case the edit fails.

chili2001

N79 wrote: »

Another point.

Do you have written confirmation from your LL that you would be ending your tenancy on the 1st January? If you do then you can ignore all the above about the notice period being incorrect but will still need to deal with the argument that the non return of the keys could have given your LL the reasonable expectation that you were still in possession.

Added to the above post but reposted in case the edit fails.

He didn't give us written confirmation only verbal sadly, although he did say he was going to give us written but never did. As I have said before, he had quite clearly planned this all along to make things as diffucult as possible for us to get our deposit back.