Power of Attorney

Soontobemum_2

Thanks RAS, that's where we found more information last night. DH told his dad about it. Errata, you're right but it's the mum as well, apparently the power of attorney was for both of them.

It seems that their solicitor has suggested it and they've just agreed to it but no idea what it really means, it was put to DH that it would just mean his sister would sort out their bills "and stuff" when/if they have to go into a care home. From your replies and a bit of research online, it seems that it's that but a bit more too!!

Errata

It mght help if you did all the research, thoroughly understood the implications of both POA's for both parents and printed off the relevant bits so you can explain it all to them and they can keep the printout.

dzug1

If they don't understand what a Power of Attorney is even when it's explained to them, then they probably are legally incapable of granting one.

dzug1

LooniesMum wrote: »

When we did it, the donor (person giving the power) had a copy, the attorneys (or attorneys-to-be) had copies and the solicitor held a copy. If you have an old style power of attorney for someone, you should get legal advice on updating it to the newer enduring power or lasting power of attorney. The older style power of attorney only covers financial issues and does not allow the attorney to make health and welfare decisions on behalf of the person who has lost their capacity. The lasting power of attorney does cover health and welfare - which if you're acting for a loved one is just as important as what happens to their pennies! As I understand it the LPA would maybe give you power to decide things like 'do not resuscitate' or give consent for an operation if the person is no longer able to give informed consent.

I'm not a solicitor but we've waded our way through a load of this stuff recently. I recommend relatives being as open as possible and for the donors to make as many of their wishes known as possible before they get too addled to say so!!

You need to register the power of attorney with the Court of Protection in order to act on behalf of the donor without any consent from the donor (taking their powers away). Before it's registered you can help manage their financial affairs by acting on their behalf e.g. you can have the power of attorney/EPA/LPA 'registered' on the donor's bank account so that you can then pay bills for them (for example) when they are ill or finding it difficult to do for themselves.

Once the donor has lost capacity the power of attorney must be registered with the Court of Protection and the tricky thing can be knowing exactly when to do that. If they have some big event (e.g. car accident) from which they never recover their marbles, then it's obvious. However, mental decline can happen very slowly. We eventually decided it was time to register but it took months - by the time we got some paperwork from the Court, it was barn-door obvious we needed it registering! It was so slow that my father actually died before it was ever registered !!! You need to start the ball rolling when the person "IS BECOMING" incompetent, not wait until there's absolutely no doubt. If you've got it wrong they can object when they are served their copy of the Notice to Register - if they aren't able to object, then it's time to register!!!

If it's of use to anyone out there, I've recently put together a list of useful information you need from the relative who is donating the power to you e.g. their bank account numbers, where there savings are (you don't need to know how much they've got!), their national insurance number, where they hide important documents in the house etc etc. I'll post it if folk want it!

As I say, not an expert - this is just from recent experience!

A useful post - some hopefully minor comments:

A Lasting Power of Attorney comes in two forms (with two sets of fees) - financial and health/welfare. You don't have to have both, and if you do it doesn't have to be the same person(s)

It needs to be registered before it can be used at all - a bank shouldn't accept it if it isn't. (The EPA was different).

And I would have thought that you DO need to know what they have in savings - if not beforehand, certainly once you start actually using the POA. Otherwise how can you make sensible decisions?
(If you leave things too late and get to the stage where you need to be a Deputy rather than Attorney then the OPG forms require full disclosure of all the subject's finances.)

emmielou

Can I just add that relatives are only written to for notification of an impending registration of an ENDURING Power of Attorney. Enduring Powers can no longer be made and have been replaced with Lasting Powers.

For a Lasting Power of Attorney the donor will select named persons to be notified when it is registered. Relatives will not be entitled to notification unless they are named in the power.

If DH parents are able to make an LPA I think they are wise to do so. Applying for a deputy to be appointment can be much more costly and time consuming. However; having said that perhaps a review in solicitor is need if they are not clear on what the document entails!

SmlSave

Hi, just to let you know that I heard yesterday from my solicitor that the Court of Protection fails 1 out of 5 applications!

LooniesMum

Yes it was the old style enduring POA (it was done just before the lasting power of attorney had become available). I did mean it's useful to know bank account numbers and a few basic details, including where they've hidden important documents, before the donor loses capacity - just in case there's a sudden event and you are suddenly "in charge". At least then you know what you are looking for. In my family's case things happened slowly, trust was built up between the donor and the attorneys and everything was made known.

With the old style enduring POA I was able to be an attorney on my father's bank accounts, and a nominated representative for the purposes of claiming benefits. If the new LPA (financial) doesn't work that way with the banks, do people have an alternative way of helping (i.e. without closing the accounts or opening new ones)?

LooniesMum

emmielou wrote: »

Can I just add that relatives are only written to for notification of an impending registration of an ENDURING Power of Attorney. Enduring Powers can no longer be made and have been replaced with Lasting Powers.

For a Lasting Power of Attorney the donor will select named persons to be notified when it is registered. Relatives will not be entitled to notification unless they are named in the power.

If DH parents are able to make an LPA I think they are wise to do so. Applying for a deputy to be appointment can be much more costly and time consuming. However; having said that perhaps a review in solicitor is need if they are not clear on what the document entails!

What would you say then, to people who have already got the older style EPA in a drawer somewhere? Should they, or need they, get it changed to LPA(s) ?

emmielou

LooniesMum wrote: »

What would you say then, to people who have already got the older style EPA in a drawer somewhere? Should they, or need they, get it changed to LPA(s) ?

Oppps! Just noticed this! You don't need to get your EPA changed to an LPA provided everyhting in it is still valid and what you want. I certainly wouldn't recommend the extra expense if you have already got an EPA. I would say that you check it every now and then to consider if you are still happy with everything and that your attorneys are still willing/able to manage your finances for you should the worst happen.

Britwife

are both brother and sister close to parents? I ask because my grandfather passed away leaving 4 children. Well one of them spent many many years turning my grandfather against his other children. They learned of it and even though my grandfather wasn't in the best of mind, he realized what his son had done to him. I feel my uncle stole my grandfather from us.

My uncle was named power of attorney and my grandfather only named my uncle and aunt on his will. We didn't know any of this but once the air was cleared my grandfather changed his will and didn't let on to his other son. A few years after reconciling with his other children, he became very ill and went to hospital. We found out he had a load of tumors that they really couldn't take care of. My mom and her close sister went to see him every night. He was then transferred to a nursing home and they still went nightly.

On the last night, he had trouble swalling food and started choking. They rang for help and they started cpr when a nurse came in with a phone with my uncle on the phone. He told them DO NOT RESUCITATE!!! My mom and aunt were horrified because he was just having some trouble with food and once it was cleared, he would be fine. We knew he wouldn't live long but everyday counted. They were all so happy just to have him back in their lives.

Turns out there was a lot of trouble with the will and they tried to claim it didnt exist. Every financial decision and any funeral arrangements were all the choice of my one uncle. His motive was greed as my grandfather had quite a sizable estate. He had lots of antiques and valuable in his house and they stole so much money and valuable from his home.......he would not allow anyone to enter his house until my uncle said he was back from his holiday. We realize now that he was probably up at his house taking what he could.

I'm sharing all this becasue this is what can happen with a poa. Also, they are entitled to extra money out of the estate because they have done extra. Except in our case, my uncle didn't do anything extra. They all worked hard on his estate and preparing his house for sale. In the end, he got an extra 20,000 for doing nothing.

This is a very serious decision that can divide families even after death. Have him talk to his dad explaining everything and take it from there.

sorry so long