Am I entitled to discount for very poor service?

bigpat

Back in late August we ordered a new front door for our home. We didn't go with the first double-glazing merchant in the phone book but researched it quite a bit and went on a recommendation. The door price came to just over £1000 including fitting and we paid £100 deposit.

It took a lot longer than promised (verbally I admit) to get the door fitted and we finally got it in mid-December. My feeling is the guy lost the paperwork and never actually ordered it from the manufacturer but I have no proof of that. He was just a bit vague when my wife phoned to chase it in late Sept.

Anyway, the door was fitted but they put the wrong lock on. We were very specific about the type and style of lock we wanted and that's not what we got. The fitter said he would get it replaced and turned up about a week later. But he had another wrong lock. Then he said that it would probably be after Christmas before he could change it.

We chased it about 10 days ago and again on Friday when we finally got hold of the chap who took our original deposit and he said someone will be calling us this Monday. We're assuming the lock will be correct this time and that after it's fitted, they will want the balance of the price, just over £900.

My question is: Do we have any legal right to reduce that amount in light of the very poor service? And it's more than an aesthetic thing. We specified a lock that would lock the door when it was pulled to, without having to lock it with a key from the outside. That's because our kids do not have their own keys yet, but my wife used to leave the house about 15 mins before them each morning in order to be at work on time. That worked fine with the old door and its cheap Yale lock as they just had to make sure they slammed it on the way out, but with this new door, they are physically unable to lock it with the keys supplied, as it entails some physical strength to yank the handle up all the way first. So she has been going in late for almost a month now and her boss is beginning to lose patience. I'm gone an hour earlier than that so I can't help!

So you see the whole thing has proved to be quite an inconvenience. Considering it will be almost five MONTHS since we ordered the door - and he'd said it would take "a few weeks" - do we have any right to a reduction and how much ought it be? We're certainly going to ASK for a reduction (maybe £100) but I'd appreciate some advice.

Thank you.

whitegoods_engineer

bigpat wrote: »

We specified a lock that would lock the door when it was pulled to, without having to lock it with a key from the outside. That's because our kids do not have their own keys yet, but my wife used to leave the house about 15 mins before them each morning in order to be at work on time. That worked fine with the old door and its cheap Yale lock as they just had to make sure they slammed it on the way out, but with this new door, they are physically unable to lock it with the keys supplied, as it entails some physical strength to yank the handle up all the way first. So she has been going in late for almost a month now and her boss is beginning to lose patience. I'm gone an hour earlier than that so I can't help!

So why didn't you just order a set of extra keys?? Surely it wouldn't entail such "physical strength" that your kids couldn't lift the handle and turn the key. How old are they - 3 ?

Your wife has to go to work late to shut the door because your kids can't operate a door handle ?????

What is going on!
|Give me strength!!!

bigpat

Well that's most helpful....NOT!!

1) The door handle is very stiff. It's relatively easy to push it MOST of the way up, but difficult to get it to go all the way and unless you do the key wont turn. As I said, this is NOT the lock we specified.

2) That makes it a two-handed operation which means you have to turn the key anti-clockwise with your left hand while holding up the handle with your right. Quite difficult if you're right-handed as all four of us are. Not to mention if you're in a hurry and if you're carrying schoolbag, PE kit, musical instrument and God knows what else some mornings. The kids can do it SOMETIMES but we can no longer be CONFIDENT that if they're last out in the morning the door will be properly locked.

3) I'm a big bloke and pretty strong, but following a childhood accident I have very poor dexterity in my left-hand, with no muscle control in two of my remaining four fingers. I fnd the lock tricky enough myself.

4) Why on earth would we order extra keys for a lock we didn't specify in the first place? Which is hopefully going to be changed in the near future?


You've completely missed the point! We received very poor service, in terms of:
- how it took to supply the door
- how different it was from the specification
- how long it's taking to put things right
- the inconvenience to which we have been put as a result

So: the original question remains and I trust there are people around here more helpful than you!

Anihilator

No you have no rights.

The SOGA offers repair/replacement or refund. They repaired it and you accepted this.

The Fitter has already incurred extra expense to suit your ridicolous childrens little strength. You wont get more.

lindos90

But isnt it reasonable to expect that someone should recieve the goods or services they actually ordered, and in a reasonable time?

5 months for a new door is a long time, especially if they were quoted a time scale in terms of weeks.

Then getting the wrong lock, twice. Im only guessing but the ones they have already brought are probably their standard/cheaper ones, and they forgot/overlooked/misunderstood the OPs original and specific request.

I agree, the locks that need the handle lifting up while you turn the key etc can be a pain for anyone with poor grip or strength, and whats the problem with having something straightforward for the kids...no keys to be lost at school either, I quite agree with OP.

The OP asked for and ordered a specific lock with particular features suitable for all the family, and thats what they should expect.I dont feel they have to justify their choice anyway

OP Im not sure how you would go about getting any reduction really, as hopefully you will soon have the door and lock you ordered, so in theory its reasonable that you pay for the goods and fitting.

It may be worth raising your disatisfaction with the length of time it took to get the door, and then the mixups with the locks, and the inconvenience, but I feel the response will be at the managers descretion.

Is it a local firm, could you write to head office or the manager before you recieve the final bill?

bigpat

They repaired it and you accepted this.

No they haven't repaired it - yet - and I haven't accepted anything. I may accept it once they EVENTUALLY get it right and my question was whether it is reasonable to expect a reduction for the very poor service and the length of time taken

The Fitter has already incurred extra expense

Who's fault is that? If they had supplied the goods we ordered, no-one would have had any of this hassle

your ridicolous childrens little strength

Where do you get the right to say that? Have you tried to lock this door? And what's happened to the forum etiquette around here? Shame on you!


Lindos90 I think you're the first person to see that I should not have to justify my choice. We were very specific about the lock we chose and we still haven't had it. They're a local company and the door itself is fine, looks good, fits well etc. it's just an absolute !!!!!! to lock!

lindos90

What about getting a letter together (in the anticipation of getting the correct lock;)) so when the work has been done, but before you pay the remainder of the bill, you send the letter to the company.

Just includes the facts, such as how long you have waited, issues with the lock etc, and ask for the final balance invoice to be reasonably adjusted to reflect this.

Its worth a try. After all at this point you have only paid a deposit, its not like you have paid for it all, and you are asking for a refund.

...Alternatively if you do not get a call today, and the requested lock fitted pronto, write a letter explaining that you have given them sufficient time to provide what was agreed, and make them an offer based on what they have done so far (the door and fitting), minus the cost of a new lock and fitting costs, and go elsewhere for the lock.

Will the lock you want be put on the same place on the door?..Im just thinking, the ones where you have to lift the handle are usually part of the handle fitment, and therefore lower on the door than a yale type lock, which is what I think you have asked them for, just wondering if a change of lock is going to mess up your door?

elsietanner71

Bigpat - have you got a written quote or any paperwork that proves they didn't complete in good time or provide the lock you requested?

A similar thing happened to us. We ordered a lock that actually goes through the entire door (not sure of proper name for them but they make it very secure) and they didnt give us that, nor did the subbie employed by them to fit the door even complete the job. He just never came back and left lethal bits of wood wedged round the frame to hold it in!

We refused to pay the full amount and they vaguely threatened us with court but nothing came of it. We had a written quote though and we also took lots of photos of the shoddy work they did.

pendulum

It doesn't sound like you have any proof of an agreement to get the door fitted by X date which was broken by the trader and indeed the fact you let him complete the work in mid-December would suggest after ordering many months previous that you accepted the work at that time. If you weren't happy because he wasn't completing the work within a reasonable time why didn't you cancel?

If he has made a mistake fitting the lock (although I don't really understand that - surely when you shut the door it locks automatically which should be good enough, and its only if you want to double-lock it that its a little hard?) then he appears willing to rectify that and he's entitled to do that without being docked any pay.

young_victor_meldrew

In short, the answer is NO you are not ENTITLED to a discount for "poor service"

bigpat

I have the order form, dated August which specifies the door and the lock and I will definitely be putting all the facts in a letter as lindos90 suggested

If you weren't happy because he wasn't completing the work within a reasonable time why didn't you cancel?

Believe me we considered it a few times... and hindsight is 20-20 isn't it? All along they kept saying, "it'll be just another week or two", "the fitter's sick this week", "sorry we double-booked him", "there's been a problem at the manufacturers" etc. etc and maybe NOW you can see we were being strung along, but at the time it felt like our new door was really going to turn up any day now and that if we cancelled we'd just have to start over with another company who might not be any better.

surely when you shut the door it locks automatically?

No it doesn't. That's the whole point. We wanted a lock that will do that, but this lock doesn't. It LATCHES but it does not LOCK. You can simply push down the handle and walk right in unless you've turned the key, which you can't do unless the handle is all the way up. Perfectly easy for most adults (tricky for me but I can do it). Probably OK for teenagers but difficult for kids. We've tried it on the neighbours kids, my wife's nephew and our daughter's friend and none of them can do it.

By the way, yes the handle & lock will be in exactly the same place, so there's no fear of damaging the door. In fact as I understand, it it's just another component that goes inside the existing lock, which makes it BEHAVE like a standard Yale lock but can also be locked by a key. I think it's called a secondary locking mechanism. The chap did come back before Christmas to TRY and rectify it and succeeded in fitting a piece inside the lock that meant when we shut the door from INSIDE, we needed a key to get out, (i.e.the inner handle was "deactivated" by some kind of spring mechanism) but when shut from the OUTSIDE, you could still walk right in. It's ALMOST exactly what we need, except it's the complete opposite! He said they'd sent him a right-hand lock when he should have had a left-hand one (or possibly vice versa!) Which is certainly plausible, but still leaves us with the problem. Naturally he took that out again on the day and put it back the way it was.

But we're the ones left suffering the consequences. I know, as things go, there are worse things happen at sea, right? I just feel aggrieved at having to stump up full price for such a poor service.

By the way, almost 7pm now and no call today form the door supplier. Surprise surprise!

Young_victor_meldrew: I imagine you're probably right, in that I'm not entitled to anything, but I suppose it can't hurt to ask. At the very least I feel like hanging onto the money for...let's see....5 months? I wonder what's the best rate I can get on that, instant access. A question for another forum, methinks!