Desperately need advice

waileywoowoo

This is a long story so I'll try to keep it quick as we really could do with some advice.

We bought a derelict property in scottish highlands in 2000. Moved on site late 2003.
Late 2004 highland council decided we should pay the last 4 years of council tax as the property was banded. Until then we had received no payment demands. Council claimed they didn't know our England address before 2003 (a complete lie as we had planning forms etc sent to our England address and we visited the council many times in those 3 years). Still doesn't explain why we never received one demand to the property in scotland though. We're now paying back approx 5 years worth on a monthly basis.

In 2007 hubby claimed Jobseekers for a few months and we claimed Council tax benefit. When he became self employed we claimed tax credits and was awarded council tax benefit again.
We are currently living on the derelict property site in a static caravan while we very slowly re-build the derelict.
Last September the council sent a letter saying we weren't entitled to benefit as we had a second home (we're paying council tax for both the static and the derelict) and they admitted that the Highland council knew of this second home and couldn't understand how our benefit had been granted. Now they are trying to make us pay back all benefit from 2007 except for the jobseekers amount (although that could change).

So far I have written to them and appealed their decision (18th December and no reply or acknowledgement as yet) stating our reasons why.
On friday we recieved yet another re-payment demand and I emailed them (will send copy letter to them also) explaining that we have appealed their decision so stop sending re-payment demands.
Yesterday we recieved a revised installment plan for our current years council tax in which they're again making us pay back their mistake. As I pay by DD weekly I have cancelled this DD, advised them of this action and have stated my reasons for doing so and have told them I will continue to pay the original amounts online every week as agreed until this matter is concluded one way or the other.
I've also asked them to stop harrassing us with payment demands as we have lodged an appeal.

So sorry this is a long story but I'm really hoping someone could give us some advice as to what to do next or even where we stand in this matter.
The Highland Council are bleeding us dry with all these demands and we don't see how we can be made to re-pay benefits that were granted due their mistake and they've admitted they knew of the second home.
Help!

welshmoneylover

I'm confused, which property did you claim council tax benefit for? The static caravan or the derelict house?

waileywoowoo

The static caravan as that is what we are living in. Although I call it a static it's more of a temporary wooden unit which The council banded in 2004ish as we're staying in them while we renovate the derelict. We get the second home discount on the derelict. (which is about 10ft away from the static)

CIS

st September the council sent a letter saying we weren't entitled to benefit as we had a second home (we're paying council tax for both the static and the derelict) and they admitted that the Highland council knew of this second home and couldn't understand how our benefit had been granted. Now they are trying to make us pay back all benefit from 2007 except for the jobseekers amount (although that could change).

I doubt you have much to argue with - its the cliamants responsibility to ensure that all details are accounted for in a claim. You may be able to argue for an official error but its very unlikely you would succeed as you should have notified them earlier that the claim wasn't correct.

waileywoowoo

CIS wrote: »

I doubt you have much to argue with - its the cliamants responsibility to ensure that all details are accounted for in a claim. You may be able to argue for an official error but its very unlikely you would succeed as you should have notified them earlier that the claim wasn't correct.

But surely they have some responsibility to enforce their own policy?
Can they really make us pay back something that is entirely down to their error?
I really struggle to see how they can admit their error and then expect us to pay it all back!

My OH actually went into the council offices to try to sort it out and it was the guy there that pointed out that it was their error and that we should pursue that course of action if need be. OH didn't get the guys name though

karenx

So if they admitted it was there error and they have overpaid you then surly you have the funds to pay it back as you knew you were recieving something when you shouldnt be???
You shouldnt of let it keep going on, I would of been on the phone every day to them till they got it sorted out it!

waileywoowoo

karenx wrote: »

So if they admitted it was there error and they have overpaid you then surly you have the funds to pay it back as you knew you were recieving something when you shouldnt be???
You shouldnt of let it keep going on, I would of been on the phone every day to them till they got it sorted out it!

How would we have the funds to pay it back??? Council tax benefit is not paid directly to us but taken off the council tax bill.
I doubt very much that you would have been on the phone everyday if you weren't even aware that there was a problem in the first place.

We didn't know! We filled in the council tax benefit forms, gave all the evidence they needed and they awarded council tax benefit on the contraption that we're living in. We also got a second home discount on the derelict. We're even paying water rates on the derelict when there's no water in it!
Last year they suddenly decided that there had been an error on their part and because the derelict had been valued at £16,000 it took us above the savings threshold.

I have no problem with them denying council tax benefit and wouldn't have had a problem with it if they'd denied it right from the beginning either. What I do have a problem with is being awarded something due to being deemed eligible by the council (and they knew ALL our details, including the second property) and then the council deciding they made a mistake and trying to get us to pay back their mistake.

moggylover

waileywoowoo wrote: »

How would we have the funds to pay it back??? Council tax benefit is not paid directly to us but taken off the council tax bill.
I doubt very much that you would have been on the phone everyday if you weren't even aware that there was a problem in the first place.

We didn't know! We filled in the council tax benefit forms, gave all the evidence they needed and they awarded council tax benefit on the contraption that we're living in. We also got a second home discount on the derelict. We're even paying water rates on the derelict when there's no water in it!
Last year they suddenly decided that there had been an error on their part and because the derelict had been valued at £16,000 it took us above the savings threshold.

I have no problem with them denying council tax benefit and wouldn't have had a problem with it if they'd denied it right from the beginning either. What I do have a problem with is being awarded something due to being deemed eligible by the council (and they knew ALL our details, including the second property) and then the council deciding they made a mistake and trying to get us to pay back their mistake.

I admit to not being au fait with Scottish regs, but around here you do not pay Council Tax on a property that is uninhabitable, so if the house is truly derelict then perhaps this aspect needs looking into.

Surely the water rates are being paid on the static rather than the house? They cannot be charging for something you don't have?

beanybop

Hello,


I had a look on the valuation office for my area, and found this, have copied, and added link, hope it helps.

The relevant point, is that the dwelling is a dwelling if it "IS USED AS SUCH" the house is derelict and therefore not used as such.

If nothing else, you should at least get the 25% discount, by regiustering one of you att he derelict house and the other in the caravan.

It looks like the council is having their cake and eating it. Surely the caravan is temporary accomodation whilst the main house is uninhabitable, and therefore how can they charge on both properties?

http://www.grampian-vjb.gov.uk/council_tax.htm

Definition of "Dwelling" for Council Tax Purposes


In general terms any kind of house or flat will count as a dwelling if it used as such, including second homes that are not let out commercially. Caravans count as dwellings if they are someone’s main home. Certain properties in multiple occupation where facilities are shared may also count as one dwelling.

waileywoowoo

We fought tooth and nail against the council tax charges, even got the local MP involved. Seems nothing can be done.

Apparently the council are within their rights to tax the temporary accommodation as we're living in it full time till the derelict is done.
The derelict building was banded A way back when, and because it was banded they have the right to charge council tax on it despite the fact that it was uninhabitable. The only way around it would have been to demolish the derelict and then the council tax would have stopped, unfortunately we wanted to re-build it. Wish we'd known those facts before we started and we would have knocked the ruddy thing down.
As for water rates, up here the water rates are charged on your council tax bill - they're not separate. We've disputed the water to the derelict but apparently there's water on site so we can just run and jump - Scottish water want their pennies.

The whole Council Tax situation up here is a farce. We've tried everything to get some kind of leeway with at least the derelict but nothing! They want their money for it and that's that.
Because we now have the two properties as such I told the council I want a second wheelie bin - petty I know! Guess what, if I want one I have to pay for it! What a joke! Newly banded and I have to pay for a wheelie bin.
The council even tried to band and tax us on a static caravan we have too. Used as storage and to house dogs but they didn't believe us so they sent a guy round to check it all out.
Hmmmm, wonder if the temporary accommodation has a right to exist after a certain amount of years? Especially as we're paying council tax and utility bills to it.