Mad at internet retailers who choose which laws apply!

mad-mark_2

Bought an item over the Internet from Seraphine.com for my wife that didn't fit. Emailed the company a day or two after receiving the item (certainly within seven working days) to let them know I wanted to return it, and asked them to process a refund.

I get an email back saying that they will only process a refund once they have received the items. My understanding is that this is *against the distance selling regulations*. But no worries, I mention this to them and inform them that the item is on its way back (at my expense) so it's not a big deal. No response.

Two weeks later I notice a refund on my credit card from Seraphine, for the cost of the item minus the £3.95 postage I'd paid for delivery. So another email goes off to them pointing out that this is also *against the distance selling regulations* which state that all payments made must be refunded.

Almost a month passes with no response, and so I fire off a bit of an angry follow up, giving them a week to refund my original postage cost. Three days later I get a reply back that says, "As a company we do not refund postage costs unless there was an error with the order and the error was ours. I have however refunded the postage fee back to your card. Not because of any trading laws which we at customer services are aware of but rather as a goodwill gesture."

So which version of the law are they "aware of"? The law seems clear to me that, if I inform them within seven days of my wish to cancel, they should refund the full amount I paid within 30 days (not including any costs I incur to return the item to them).

I've got my money back now, but why is it that companies try it on, and then use the "goodwill gesture" get-out clause when they are eventually pushed into doing what the law prescribes?

Or is my interpretation of the distance selling regulations flawed?

-:mad:mad:mad: Mark-

4743hudsonj

it is a bit cheeky and perhaps worthy of a complaint to trading standards.

SEE from OFT's guide on the DSR's

3.46 As soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case
within 30 days at the latest. You must refund the consumer’s money
even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to
you by the consumer. You cannot insist on the goods being received
by you before you make a refund. See also paragraph 3.64.

as for the refund on postage, you are wrong

Anihilator

Actually its you who is wrong.

The DSR states a full refund must be supplied along with postage charge unless it is clearly stated in the terms otherwise that postage is not refundable.

A quick glance at their T&C's and this is clearly shown hence it is perfectly legitimate for them to not refund postage.

Will you apologise for your libellous post?

Colliefrog

Companies generally don't refund the delivery charge when an unwanted item is returned becuse you have used the delivery service and therefore should pay for it. I have yet to come across a company who will refund delivery charges unless the item is faulty.

Tozer

Anihilator wrote: »

Actually its you who is wrong.

The DSR states a full refund must be supplied along with postage charge unless it is clearly stated in the terms otherwise that postage is not refundable.

A quick glance at their T&C's and this is clearly shown hence it is perfectly legitimate for them to not refund postage.

Will you apologise for your libellous post?

Libel? Have you ever had any experience of what is involved in a libel action - particularly as a corporate claimant?

Get a grip.

cyberbob

Anihilator wrote: »

Actually its you who is wrong.

The DSR states a full refund must be supplied along with postage charge unless it is clearly stated in the terms otherwise that postage is not refundable.?

You need to get your facts straight. No you are wrong the seller has to refund the original payment including outgoing postage. Think you need to check before you start ranting. Its only the return postage that can be refused if in T&Cs

OFT-_A_Guide_to_DSR wrote:

What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48 The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery. The essence of
distance selling is that consumers buy from home and receive goods
at home. In these circumstances, almost every case of home
shopping will involve delivery of the goods ordered and so delivery
forms an essential part of the contract.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm

mad-mark_2

Hmmm, to the three of you above, take a look at page 10 of the govenment leaflet giving guidance to businesses who distance sell:

www (dot) oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

The key bit states: "The retailer must refund the full amount including the delivery costs as soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case within 30 days at the latest. You cannot insist on the goods being received by you before you make a refund."

I guess the government are wrong on this too. :mad:

mad-mark_2

Maybe if enough companies go around stating that they know the law and they will only do things as a good-will gesture, then people eventually believe *their* version of the law. Certainly a few of you above have fallen for it.

the182guy

Hi mad-mark,

You are actually correct about the DSR. The supplier must provide a full refund within 30 days including the original postage.

With regards to the cost of return postage, the supplier is allowed to state in the T&Cs that the consumer must cover the cost of returning the goods to the supplier, or cost of recovering the goods by the supplier.

I suspect this retailer knows that one of their terms is invalid because it contradicts the DSR where the DSR does not explicitly permit a contradiction by supplier T&Cs, and this is why the retailer quickly issued a full refund. They can see that you know your rights and they hope that you will accept the refund and will not take the issue any further. If I was you I would inform Trading Standards.

The trouble is, most people see a list of T&Cs on a website, and they just assume that they are legal, when infact they may not be.

Sources:
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38102.html
http://www.netlawman.co.uk/info/distance-selling-refunds.php
http://www.out-law.com/page-430#Right

mad-mark_2

Anihilator wrote: »

Actually its you who is wrong.

The DSR states a full refund must be supplied along with postage charge unless it is clearly stated in the terms otherwise that postage is not refundable.

A quick glance at their T&C's and this is clearly shown hence it is perfectly legitimate for them to not refund postage.

Will you apologise for your libellous post?

And you haven't thought that such T&Cs are themselves breaking the law? Your loss I guess. But that's why I'm mad!

(And there's as much chance of me apologising for my post as there is of you apologising for helping spread mis-information!)

Colliefrog wrote: »

Companies generally don't refund the delivery charge when an unwanted item is returned becuse you have used the delivery service and therefore should pay for it. I have yet to come across a company who will refund delivery charges unless the item is faulty.

And they are therefore all acting against the law. Maybe if they all do it, that'll be ok...?

Anihilator

How do they terms and conditions break the law?

The DSR allows retailers to pass on the postage costs as long as its in the terms which it is.

You cant read the bits you like and call that the law:rolleyes: