possibility of claiming off neighbour's contents insurance?

panzoa

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post on MSE. Having read all the great advice people have been giving on this forum I thought I'd post my own dilemma here. Would really appreciate any help you guys can give me on this one.

Basically just before Christmas the upstairs neighbours decided it would be a good idea to clean their bathroom floor by tipping a HUGE bucket of water onto it. Needless to say this ended pretty badly with the water seeping through the floorboards and flooding my flat causing quite a lot of damage. (its a converted victorian flat so no waterproofing to speak of)

The buildings insurance taken out on the whole block should be able to cover the repairs to be done on my ceiling, however, what I am unsure about is what I should do about claiming on the contents (a rug, guitar, tv and mattress got damaged). This is because when I phoned up my own insurance company they said that despite it being the fault of the neighbours the claim would still have to be classed as accidental damage which I am not covered for.

Now the upstairs neighbours are renting the property and so have no insurance of any kind but I have contacted the landlord of the property and I believe he does have some sort of landlord's insurance although I do not have any details of exactly what this entails.

So my situation now is I cannot just claim cost of the contents off my own insurance company and let the insurance companies sort it out between themselves which is what I would have liked, therefore I was wondering if it would be possible for me to claim directly off the upstairs landlord's insurance? Obviously I can see the insurance company is not going to like this so is there anything I can say to give me more of a leg to stand on and put some pressure on them to process my claim properly?

If not is there anything else I could do sort of suing? And if I was to sue should I be suing the tenants directly or the landlord (as to be fair it was not the landlord's fault either).

Like I said before any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks a lot in advance! :beer:

McKneff

I would have thought (and i am no expert) that the landlord will only hold
buildings insurance. Tennants should provide their own contents insurance.
I dont think you would be able to claim from the landlord.

If the tennants have been negligent, and it sounds as if they have been, then
the only way is through the small claims court against the tennants.

Just a common sense thought really.

PasturesNew

The route would be for you to present the upstairs people with a bill for your ruined stuff .... and get them to pay it. Whether they have insurance or not is not your worry, as they don't have insurance then they still owe you the money .... so, if they don't pay, you'd need to end up taking the claim to the small claims court.

Any claim is between you and them, the fact either/both parties have insurance is really their luck, but the debt/claim is ultimately between you and them.

panzoa

Thanks for the advice, but when you say ruined stuff, I really dunno how much liberty can I take. For example, water got into my TV from the leak, but I have tested the TV out and it still seems to work ok. However, I JUST bought the TV a few months ago and with a 5 year guarantee which I think will now be at risk of being invalidated. Therefore would it be reasonable for me to claim back the cost of the whole TV from upstairs? I doubt it somehow... But then to get nothing back because it still works seems unfair to me as well.

Similar situation with guitar and mattress actually, all still "usable" now that they have dried out but with guitar I suspect the wood probably warped slightly thus altering the sound of the instrument (although no obvious warping which can be seen with naked eye) and with the mattress there is some staining and it probably has affected the quality of the memory foam (its a tempur mattress) but again I doubt these are big enough problems to warrant claiming back the whole cost of the items but at the same time they are not easily repairable problems either (replacing guitar body is probably pretty expensive, and tempur mattresses aren't suitable for cleaning) so I feel I should get back something substantial.

Dunno if I should just be cheeky and quote them the bill for replacements of all the items (which would come to quite a bit actually if I included the mattress and TV) and have a high chance of them refusing flat out to pay or be a bit more lenient. But I don't want to be too lenient either otherwise I will feel like I have not been properly reimbursed for the damage they have caused me.

Oscar_The_Grouch

I think there are 3 things you should do first:

1. Ask your neighbours if they have contents insurance.
Be polite and explain that the water has damaged some of your stuff and you've been told that their contents insurers would pay for the damage. From there, you can decide whether it's worth making a claim against them; if they are a bit !!!!! and more likely to tell you to "f off" than give you the information, you may want to consider moving!!

2. Speak to your insurers
Firstly, TV's, Video and audio equipment are all covered "as standard" for accidental damage. Put in a claim for your TV - your insurers should arrange for it to be inspected and if it is damaged, repair it or provide you with a replacement.

3. Speak to people
Regarding the mattress, I wouldn't think that water would damage the foam, but I'm no expert. Pick up the phone and speak to the manufacturer. Similarly with the guitar, take it to a music shop and ask their advice.

The final think I would say is that you have a duty of care to mitigate your loss. This means that the law would expect you to do everything you can to make any claim, whether against a third party or an insurer, as low as possible. If you put in a claim for lots of items that are not actually damaged or only have the possibility of slight damage in the future, your entire claim will be kicked out.

Hope this helps.

DocProc

In this sort of situation, the word 'negligence' pops up.

My suggestion would be, "Do not try to sue anyone for negligence'. Apparently, it's just about impossible and a complete waste of time trying to prove it.

You say, "a HUGE bucket of water". Isn't it simply amazing how much damage it can do?

The claim you have can be divided into two sections:

1. The Landlord's policy for his 'Fixtures and Fittings'

2. Everything else. ie. "a rug, guitar, tv and mattress got damaged"

I guess you can quantify the cost of 'putting things right'. This might mean either repairs, cleaning, or even complete replacement. Anyhow, it's reasonably straightforward to quantify.

Then, in the first instance, I think you then have to talk to the tenants upstairs and ask them to reimburse you for your costs/losses. It would seem yo have already found out that they do not have any insurance.

If they don't settle with you then I think you are in trouble. You can issue a default summons after warning them that this is what are going to do if they don't settle by a certain date. However, it would not be polite to threaten this to start with. How hard you pursue your claim is up to you and it would add to the total costs to them.

I would pursue the landlord as hard as you can first. You might try negotiating with him if he doesn't have a liability policy. Try for a month or two's rent, for example.

One of the best ways to win an argument is with a 'false cause'. If the false cause is a real cause so much the better:
eg,

It's the Landlord's fault that the upstairs floor is not waterproof.

It's the Landlord's fault if he puts tenants in knowing the floor isn't waterproof and then doesn't warn them about not sloshing bucklets of water about.

Well, not really...

But these are the sort of things I think you need to think up.

If the floor isn't waterproof then perhaps the Landlord could have more strongly insisted that tenants below are protected from damage form tenants above with his own liability policy. If he hasn't done, then one could say that he should have done so. It's a bit debatable, I know. Bu you might touch a nerve if he's an altruistic kind of guy.

But if you threaten to check out, then the gap between you going and a replacement tenant coming in again, might easily cost your Landlord extra Agent's Fees and one or more months of lost rent. This could cover the cost of your claim.

And are you a good tenant? Would the next one after you be as prompt at paying the rent?, etc, etc.?

Also, when you are claiming from someone else, it's best to start with a claim list where the one's with the most money and the most to lose, and so might be the first to settle, are at the top of the list of who ytou might want to claim against. I hope you agree?

ashburnham

panzoa wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, but when you say ruined stuff, I really dunno how much liberty can I take. For example, water got into my TV from the leak, but I have tested the TV out and it still seems to work ok. However, I JUST bought the TV a few months ago and with a 5 year guarantee which I think will now be at risk of being invalidated. Therefore would it be reasonable for me to claim back the cost of the whole TV from upstairs? I doubt it somehow... But then to get nothing back because it still works seems unfair to me as well.

Similar situation with guitar and mattress actually, all still "usable" now that they have dried out but with guitar I suspect the wood probably warped slightly thus altering the sound of the instrument (although no obvious warping which can be seen with naked eye) and with the mattress there is some staining and it probably has affected the quality of the memory foam (its a tempur mattress) but again I doubt these are big enough problems to warrant claiming back the whole cost of the items but at the same time they are not easily repairable problems either (replacing guitar body is probably pretty expensive, and tempur mattresses aren't suitable for cleaning) so I feel I should get back something substantial.

Dunno if I should just be cheeky and quote them the bill for replacements of all the items (which would come to quite a bit actually if I included the mattress and TV) and have a high chance of them refusing flat out to pay or be a bit more lenient. But I don't want to be too lenient either otherwise I will feel like I have not been properly reimbursed for the damage they have caused me.

So if you drive into the side of someone's car and cause a minor dent, do you think they are going to let you off because the car is still working and "usable"? I personally think not. You would be paying to sort out the dent (and probably whiplash in this day and age!)

I think the upstairs tenant will be aware of their stupidity, with any luck they will be reasonable and pay your costs. I agree with the suggestion of sending them a polite but firm letter informing them of the costs to repair/replace the damaged items and take it from there.

dacouch

It's a different principle due to their being Insurers involved and the involvement of the Road Traffic Act.