HELP! advice about unfair council charges

bunglesabout

Hi I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice regarding how I go about questioning some council charges?

I live in a 3 storey block of flats which have 4 flats and a maisonette as part of the block.
I live on the corner of a street and there is another block of exactly the same layout as mine, adjacent to us (an L shape).
I bought my flat from the local council under the right to buy scheme four years ago and part of my t & C was that I would have to pay a percentage of any costs incurred if the council chose to improve or carry out works to the building.

Before Xmas I received a letter saying that they intended to replace the windows and doors in the flats and communal areas on my estate, as they had reached the end of their shelf life and that my share of the costs would be approx £1600

I sent a letter to the council questioning some of the statements they had made, but was sent one back telling me to refer to the terms of my lease.

When I did this I found that any charges sent to me from the council would also include costs for the block of flats adjacent to mine and I then noted that flats that have already been changed in and around my area have only had the flat windows and doors replaced and the communal areas have not been touched.
In effect I will be paying for someone else to have brand new UPVC windows to be installed, in my block and the one adjacent, with no change to the communal areas we all use (stairwell)

I replaced my own windows when I bought my flat 4 years ago, and there are some others in the blocks that already have replaced their windows too, but the reply I received from the council said that this had already been taken into account when calculating my percentage of the costs.

I have no problem abiding by my T & C and am aware that there would be costs passed down to me from the council through works they may do, but I am a little unhappy that none of the works they intend to carry out benefits me at all (the communal areas still have the same old windows in) and in fact I'm being billed for work carried out in a block that I don't even live in.

My T & C are clear on this matter, but is there anyone I can appeal to regarding the amount I am being charged and it's fairness?

Any help would be gratefully received.

Bungle

BitterAndTwisted

It's my understanding that if you do not want or need any of these improvement works, you can decline to have them carried out. But that's only if the improvement works entail no work to communal areas which all tenant receive the benefit of.

Fire_Fox

Does your long lease state that you have to pay a proportion when the windows and/ or doors are replaced? Did you get permission from the freeholder when you replaced your windows? Did you seek to get you long lease varied to remove you from any obligation towards the windows in other flats?

In general you do have to abide by the terms of your long lease, however service charges/ major works do have to be "reasonable" and "reasonably incurred" - you might be able to go to a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal to challenge whether these charges are indeed reasonable IF you are not benefitting (but you state the council are also replacing the communal windows??).

Everything leasehold here, invest a couple of hours of time reading:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/

Fire_Fox

bunglesabout wrote: »

Before Xmas I received a letter saying that they intended to replace the windows and doors in the flats and communal areas on my estate, as they had reached the end of their shelf life and that my share of the costs would be approx £1600


When I did this I found that any charges sent to me from the council would also include costs for the block of flats adjacent to mine and I then noted that flats that have already been changed in and around my area have only had the flat windows and doors replaced and the communal areas have not been touched.
In effect I will be paying for someone else to have brand new UPVC windows to be installed, in my block and the one adjacent, with no change to the communal areas we all use (stairwell)

I replaced my own windows when I bought my flat 4 years ago, and there are some others in the blocks that already have replaced their windows too, but the reply I received from the council said that this had already been taken into account when calculating my percentage of the costs.

I have no problem abiding by my T & C and am aware that there would be costs passed down to me from the council through works they may do, but I am a little unhappy that none of the works they intend to carry out benefits me at all (the communal areas still have the same old windows in) and in fact I'm being billed for work carried out in a block that I don't even live in.

You are contradicting yourself here???

lincroft1710

The council should issue you with a schedule of works and costs. These schemes are well known and there have been several threads on this board about them.

Little consolation but £1,600 is a low cost compared to some where council have asked £10/12,000 from owners of ex council flats. If the council's intentions are within the scope of the Ts and Cs there won't be much you can do. Speak to your local councillor or MP and see if they can help.

clutton_2

i am amazed that your solicitor did not pick up on this clause in the lease which allows you the privilege of paying for another blocks repairs....

if the council has not followed the correct procedure re leasehold repairs then the most they can charge you is £250

BitterAndTwisted

It's my understanding that any proposed future works would have needed to have been declared to the enquiring Solicitor when the property was bought. There should also have been a consultancy process before the costing was done.

bunglesabout

Hi everyone
thank you for your replies.

Firefox, with regard to contradicting myself, the letter I received from the council said that only 'some' of the communal windows would be replaced, but I have looked at several blocks that have already been changed and none of the communal areas have been modified at all.

Clutton, my solicitor never mentioned during the buying process that I might be liable for costs in the block adjacent, and I'll be honest and say I was a first time buyer, so I was probably fairly naive in thinking he would advise me of anything untoward. And as a layman much of my t & c held such a lot of technical legal jargon which I didn't fully understand that I defered to his knowledge when reading it.

Lincroft, I was given a proposed 5 year plan for repairs and changes to the block when I applied to buy, but the main item on it was the possibilty of adding a pitch roof to the block instead of the flat roof we currently have.
I appreciate that if this had happened the cost would have been substantial but I had been given advance warning about it and like I said I am willing to acknowledge that I fully expected some costs over the years.

The only thing that bothers me is that I do not benefit at all from these window installations. I know this sounds selfish but If it had included the communal areas then I would not question it at all. I'm also not happy with the fact that I am paying for changes to an adjacent block, which I cannot even get access to as it has a security door, and this seems a little unfair to me, which is why I was wondering if I had grounds to question this fee and would like to know the first steps I could take to do this.

I know that costs are an expected part of owning your own home, but in this instance I'm not sure that the amount I am being billed is fully justified. However if I have no other recourse I will abide by my lease terms and will just have to look at this as a learning curve for the next property I buy.

I appreciate all your replies. Thank you

Bungle

clutton_2

"" I am paying for changes to an adjacent block, which I cannot even get access to as it has a security door, and this seems a little unfair to me,"

when i bought an ex council flat my solicitor read the lease and put forward several changes to the lease by way of preparing a Deed of Variation whihc the council lawyers approved... this cost me £250 for the councils legal fees plus a couple of hundred for my own sols fees.

you employ a solicitor to discover anomalies like this when you buy a property - especially a leasehold property - and you have every right to expect him to inform you of potential difficulties.. this being one of them

you will need legal help to sort this out - but do read the lease website as mentioned above first

blckbrd

Your lease plans - and the lease itself - will clearly define the block in which your property is situated. If it's L-shaped, then you are being charged 'correctly'. If it's not, then you're not. Some blocks form their own estate for management/charging purposes - a little confusing but the definition should, again, be within the lease.

The perception of benefit is not a sound basis for a challenge against service/major works charges. You may not benefit from the third brick from the left, 7 rows up on the front elevation of your neighbour's flat but it's part of the structure and therefore may be subject to charges which would be apportioned to you.

Unfortunately, you, the person who may wish to wander in the adjacent block (use the trades button one morning ), don't really come into things. You can't, I hope, get access to 'your' block's drains, foundations electrical intake cupboard or lift doo-dads (if it has one) but you'll certainly be responsible for any maintenace charges.

Is it just window and door renewal in the programme of works? No external reps and decs or other works? Why not ask for details of unadjusted costs so that you might make a fuller comparison? I must say, however, that scaffolding and prelim costs can be enormous and make up a large percentage of the charge. So even with an elemental reduction for the actual window renewal cost, the bill can remain quite hefty.

Fire_Fox

bunglesabout wrote: »

Hi everyone
thank you for your replies.

Firefox, with regard to contradicting myself, the letter I received from the council said that only 'some' of the communal windows would be replaced, but I have looked at several blocks that have already been changed and none of the communal areas have been modified at all.

The only thing that bothers me is that I do not benefit at all from these window installations. I know this sounds selfish but If it had included the communal areas then I would not question it at all. I'm also not happy with the fact that I am paying for changes to an adjacent block, which I cannot even get access to as it has a security door, and this seems a little unfair to me, which is why I was wondering if I had grounds to question this fee and would like to know the first steps I could take to do this.

Bungle

To be honest your arguments are pretty rubbish, you need to find a legal argument and that means spending several hours reading the lease website and your long lease. What has been done to other blocks is irrelevant - your block may be more exposed to the weather and be in worse shape.

I don't think it's that rare to have to pay for another building within the same complex, bear in mind they are also contributing to repairs and maintenance for your building. It's normal for people on the ground floor to pay for lifts and roofs, and normal for people on top floors to pay for damp proof courses - being a leaseholder is being part of a community.

By having the windows replaced in two blocks together there should be an economy of scale which saves you money. If it were me I'd be pushing the council to replace ALL the communal windows and doors in my block, at only half cost to me and half cost to the adjacent block.