Interested in buying a flat, but puzzled about poor energy rating

sebtomato

Hi,

I am in interested in buying a flat, but it has been poorly rated in term of energy efficiency, and I still don't know the reason, so it is worrying.

Rated E/49 in term of Energy efficiency (potential of D/61) and E/43 in term of environmental impact.

The flat has:

• new windows in each room, double glazing
• master bedroom and reception facing south, large windows. Kitchen, bathroom, second bedroom facing north
• Second floor, lots of light
• central heating, large radiators in each room (apart from kitchen), all in good condition
• fairly modern gas boiler, electronic control panel in kitchen with timer etc
• building/block of flat is around 40 years old (bricks), around 20 flats
• Immaculate ceilings and walls, no damp patches etc. Thick carpets on the floor
• 2nd/top floor, 3 out of 4 walls facing outside

Most of the elements above appear to be positive, and would actually suggest an efficient flat.

I have requested an estimate of annual gas bills from seller, but not received yet, altough they have replied to all my other questions.

Could someone advise please on what should be the expected gas bills for such flat, 52 square meters, for hot water and heating? What would be roughly the difference between that flat and a more efficient rated one, say rated C? If it is say £100 a year, then probably won't impact my decision.

How do I get access to the recommendations made to achieve the potential of a D rating?

Thanks!
Seb

G_M

HIPs and EPCs are pretty much a waste of time. Many assessors base their findings on assumptions ('assumed 100mm insulation in loft'), and minor things like the presence/absence of energy eficient lightbulbs makes a difference.

See here for more detail.

Yes, ask for copies of last year's gas/electric bills - much better source of info on running costs!

• new windows in each room, double glazing good
• master bedroom and reception facing south, large windows. good Kitchen, bathroom, second bedroom facing north bad
• Second floor, lots of light light means nothing
• central heating, large radiators in each room (apart from kitchen), all in good condition good
• fairly modern means what? condensing? gas boiler, electronic control panel in kitchen with timer etc
• building/block of flat is around 40 years old (bricks)walls may well not be insulated, around 20 flats so what?
• Immaculate ceilings and walls, so what?no damp patches etc. Thick carpets on the floor bad. stops heat from flat below rising into yours!
• 2nd/top floor bad maybe no insulation above, 3 out of 4 walls facing outside bad, lots of outside walls,

sebtomato

Thanks.

G_M wrote: »

• Second floor, lots of light light means nothing

I guess my point was: not a dark place: top floor, no large buildings around, all the rooms are bright, so plenty of sun.

G_M wrote: »

• fairly modern means what? condensing? gas boiler, electronic control panel in kitchen with timer etc

First time I ever looked at a boiler, so really couldn't comment! I asked the EA to see the boiler, as if I knew what I was doing. Didn't see a water tank.

G_M wrote: »

• Immaculate ceilings and walls, so what?no damp patches etc.

I have seen properties with black marks/dust above heaters/radiators, indicating an ascending draft. The same applies to ceilings (black marks), but I guess they may have repainted everything recently, so not really an evidence.

Thanks,
Seb

phead

Oops scrap that, didn't read that correctly.

As other have said given its age and position, it will never be as good as a new place, but if its what you want the cost of heating a small flat shouldn't put you off it.

silvercar

Shoving energy saving light bulbs in every light socket will improve the rating, won't make an iota of difference to the warmth of your flat or your heating bill, but will probably give you a higher rating.

worried_jim

Buy the flat, there is nothing wrong.

pie81

The rating will probably be due to the fact it's top floor and has 3 out of 4 walls facing outside. That's always going to be less energy efficient than a flat which is more "enclosed" within the block. On the other hand it means you get lots of light and fewer neighbours. Swings and roundabouts.

Fire_Fox

sebtomato wrote: »

Hi,

I am in interested in buying a flat, but it has been poorly rated in term of energy efficiency, and I still don't know the reason, so it is worrying.

Rated E/49 in term of Energy efficiency (potential of D/61) and E/43 in term of environmental impact.

The flat has:

• new windows in each room, double glazing
• master bedroom and reception facing south, large windows. Kitchen, bathroom, second bedroom facing north
• Second floor, lots of light
• central heating, large radiators in each room (apart from kitchen), all in good condition
• fairly modern gas boiler, electronic control panel in kitchen with timer etc
• building/block of flat is around 40 years old (bricks), around 20 flats
• Immaculate ceilings and walls, no damp patches etc. Thick carpets on the floor
• 2nd/top floor, 3 out of 4 walls facing outside

Most of the elements above appear to be positive, and would actually suggest an efficient flat.

I have requested an estimate of annual gas bills from seller, but not received yet, altough they have replied to all my other questions.

Could someone advise please on what should be the expected gas bills for such flat, 52 square meters, for hot water and heating? What would be roughly the difference between that flat and a more efficient rated one, say rated C? If it is say £100 a year, then probably won't impact my decision.

How do I get access to the recommendations made to achieve the potential of a D rating?

Thanks!
Seb

Lots of light/ large windows means lots of glass and glass loses heat. Forty years old means either solid walls or an unfilled cavity, both lose heat. Top floor, unless the roof space is thoroughly insulated, loses heat. Three outside walls, lose heat. Cannot see why you think this will be an energy efficient flat!

Don't look at what the occupier is spending on energy bills, unless you know how many hours a day they heat for, how many months a year (some people think winter starts in September and ends in May ...), and what ambient temperature they prefer.

clutton_2

someone elses energy bills will be no help at all.. we all use power in our own different ways

sebtomato

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Lots of light/ large windows means lots of glass and glass loses heat. Forty years old means either solid walls or an unfilled cavity, both lose heat. Top floor, unless the roof space is thoroughly insulated, loses heat. Three outside walls, lose heat. Cannot see why you think this will be an energy efficient flat!

I have seen similar flats recently, similar size, similar old buildings, with better energy ratings, but without double-glazing, central gas heating, main rooms facing north etc so that's why I am wondering why such a poor rating, as there are quite a few positives points.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Don't look at what the occupier is spending on energy bills, unless you know how many hours a day they heat for, how many months a year (some people think winter starts in September and ends in May ...), and what ambient temperature they prefer.

I am afraid the occupier's bills in the only information available to me to get an idea on ongoing cost, as I have no ways to do calculations or simulations. It may not reflect my own usage, but that's the only information I have. If they have a gas bill of £80 a month for instance, then at least I know I can expect the same or more.

sebtomato

clutton wrote: »

someone elses energy bills will be no help at all.. we all use power in our own different ways

Sure, but what other information I have then to estimate the ongoing electricity and gas bills for a similar-size flat, and with similar energy ratings?