No Contract and Provisional Period has ended...

xx_Jo_xx

I started with my employer in September and was orignally taken on on a three month probationary contract.

The three months was up on the 1st December and to date no one has said anything about renewing or giving me a new contract.

Are they obliged to? And if not, what would I be covered for etc? Would I still be covered by the terms stated in my probationary contract, even though technically that has expired?

Thanks in advance xx

jdturk

did they say you would get a pay rise if they felt you were doing a satisfactory job? if not and everything else is the same I would say your original contract is still valid.

If they did say they would increase pay or something to your benefit then ask them about it

debtdesperado

Yep - unless you and your employer have agreed that anything should change, you'll be covered under the same terms as your probationary contract. Perhaps it's time to arrange a review meeting with your line manager to get put onto a permanent contract?

DeltaPan

Yes, in a word.

They are legally obliged to renew your contract if continuing to employ you after a 3 month probation period with appraisal of your performance at the end of that.

It could be a temporary contract or permanent, but the terms of the probation period contract are over so a new contract is required.

I know this from my working with the company expediting TFL contracts like the Park Lane landscaped traffic islands next to Hyde Park and other prime landscaping sites in London under the umberlla company holding the contracts. (Unless employment law has changed drastically in 4 years which i doubt.)

It's important to keep companies on their toes with contracts.

I was more experienced than all other employees, the 2 forepersons when i joined were dairy farmers from NZ and didn't know anywhere near as much as me or as skilled, managers wanted me to be foreperson but i said i wanted to wait until they left because of their work Visas expiring then i'd accept promotion as i didn't want to deal with the certain resentment the other 2 would express.

Turns out though, i was simply given a pay rise when they left and i was supposedly promoted, managers put me forward as their top man, the man who can, as it were, to TFL, while starting to treat me badly obviously through resentment of what i know and my real experience and knowledge to their blarney, a favourite expression of one of the managers was, "But we're still learning", life is a learning curve, last thing i'd ever think is i know it all and what it was is those people were suited to other careers, certainly not soft landscaping/maintenance manangers, more like base employees themselves, managers/supervisors and forepersons should know the job already, these are basics i'm referring to, still can't do what's necessary properly to this day, all the public get is sub standard work for far too much money they demand, Park Lane itself is worth more than £1,000,000 a year and a small fraction of that is spent maintaining/upgrading it with nothing but excuses made for not doing what's necessary which is why these places are degenerating constantly over the last decade i'm aware of, company isn't even based in London and has no commitment to London public environs, well not the company but mangers in charge of these contracts.

But then they started taking the mick big time, shaved core employees from 7 when i started to 2 others apart from myself and employed as forepersons, so no actual workers apart from occasional unskilled agency and though i worked like a horse they considered they needn't do much at all as friends of managers and self important because of being contracted as forepersons, this was due to managers in other areas across the S.E acted criminally and collapsed other lucrative contracts so causing a crisis in the company, the core employees kept on were friends of the London and highways managers and did diddly squat compared to me who was working like a horse and getting the mick taken out of me for taking my job, working on behalf of the public trust, seriously and i had no help with getting unskilled agency workers to pull their weight etc, i was resented because of my experience and skills, which are considerable as i started in a company with affluent clients, there 8 years out of 10, 1989-99 and had to know my stuff, plant knowledge and method gardening etc, etc, taken advantage of by the managers and their 'personal friends' as it was put, while i worked myself into repetitive strain injury etc because i was committed to doing the best job i could for the London public and tourists to London, where they just saw the job as a cash cow and couldn't take it seriously and put as little effort in as possible for as much as they could get, i was even told one had a heart problem and couldn't do much manual work, bloody cheek employing him when somebody fit and could do the job could be employed in stead of a chancer who didn't know what he was doing.

I had enough after a time, had a vascular contraction which flipped a muscle in my forearm which nearly ripped muscle from bone, because of intense hoeing and everything when it came to a contract put forward for Bloom of Britain, the manager who should of been reinforcing my encouraging agency workers and other core employees to pull their weight was telling them to take it easy etc.

I refused to work for maintenance/soft landscaping under those conditions, though i suffered a repetitive strain injury and had to take some time off, they refused to pay me, i'd had enough and transferred to Arboriculture in Tower Hamlets, worked there for a year and the lads really respected how hard i worked and fitted in very well very quickly because of my strength and speed etc as not much call for my gardening skills but i'm versatile and a quick study of new work formats and such, same company different division, then 2 days after burying my father, day of the 2005 General Election, sleep problems and my being executor had shagged me completely but was given no compassionate leave to speak of and was rushed off my feet dealing with my fathers funeral myself while working hard as well and had an accident which nearly tore my wrist off when at the end of the day in St Paul's school in Tower hamlets somebody closed the security gate leaving my rucksack in the secure compound, shagged out completely i had to jump the railings, went over, got my rucksack, then jumping back over my wrist got caught in the railing heads when i jumped to the other side, 4-6 inches more height on the railing and my arm would have been torn off.

Anyway, company treated me like crap in maintenance and those managers ran me down to the arb' manager and hours after getting off the operating table to stitch a ligament torn from my wrist, as well as shearing the tip of the Scapel and fracturing the Ulna, i was being threatened with the sack if i didn't come in next day, whilst on high dose Codeine for pain management and out of my head on the Opiates, to at least do traffic management, injury was treated as though a joke and was wearing a false cast etc.

I shouldn't have even been in work never mind them demanding i do traffic control while large London Planes were being worked on and i was out of my head on the pain med's, just one more abuse from a manager, this time in the arb' division with the attitudes of maintenance and highways managers turning him against me.

Anyway.

I tried to institute a constructive tribunal as i had been treated completely out of order.

But was presented as mental because i was supposed to be a foreperson by contract but they never changed it from being base employee, from that point the company managers convinced the "pre hearing" what i said was nothing but lies and i wasn't even a foreman and a tribunal didn't happen.

The London and highways managers were up to all sorts of shenanigans, breaching health and safety, loss of industrial plants through thefts which never occured for insurance, pilfering plant stock meant for public landscaping for private jobs, essentially thieving, sabotaging contracts held by other public sector landscaping companies so tender would be brought forward and that company gaining new contracts, a lot of corruption all sorts. The new London manager in 2003 was working for a company such sabotage occurred and even stole the other company's Turf Reformer machine, bit like a lawn mower with blades on the side not underneath, when he left the other company where he was supervisor and joined the one i was working for a a manager with the other company's machine.

That one point of them not changing my contract as i trusted them when i was supposed to have been promoted to foreperson was enough to show the chairperson i was not in fact a foreperson as i'd said and make him believe everything else was rubbish, it was before the company went into crisis and cut staff levels etc and did trust them at that point, about 6 months later it all started becoming clear about corruption, i even contacted the Mayors department with a dossier, who the mayors secretary didn't do anything but warn those who were corrupt and conning the taxpayer and acting criminally i was making complaints against, so they could initiate damage control and cover things up.

I was the only one out of the lot of them telling the truth, i don't lie, at all, deceit and duplicity is beyond me, no matter if it harms me i tell the truth, i will not lie to anybody outside of white lies to save hurt feelings etc which is different, the employment contract situation is what they used to convince Stratford tribunals that what i'd said was fantasy.

[Didn't matter that my involvement with the family high court at the same time regards my son and his mother cracking up after somebody trying to kill her so our son was in care with foster parents, we are separated, meant my having a psychiatric assessment by default and there being nothing wrong with me whatsoever, the company i was working for that did this got away with it and managed to convince the Pre Hearing chairperson i was mental and wasn't even a foreperson (foreman) and was delusional.]

So it's important to make sure companies do renew or change contracts with promotion or taking on full time from probation period whatever.

If a company gives nothing but excuses regards contracts being corrected or renewed, my opinion is it's time to move on and have them challenged legally before it goes too far, like it did with me back in 2002-2005, my not doing so led to my being shafted and denied employee rights.

Pardon the long post to denote what issues can arise and the seriousness of such which is hard to explain in one paragraph.

Peace and good luck. :cool:

chipmunk

DeltaPan wrote: »

Yes, in a word.

They are legally obliged to renew your contract if continuing to employ you after a 3 month probation period with appraisal of your performance at the end of that.

It could be a temporary contract or permanent, but the terms of the probation period contract are over so a new contract is required.

I know this from my working with the company expediting TFL contracts like the Park Lane landscaped traffic islands next to Hyde Park and other prime landscaping sites in London under the umberlla company holding the contracts. (Unless employment law has changed drastically in 4 years which i doubt.)

It's important to keep companies on their toes with contracts.

I was more experienced than all other employees, the 2 forepersons when i joined were dairy farmers from NZ and didn't know anywhere near as much as me or as skilled, managers wanted me to be foreperson but i said i wanted to wait until they left because of their work Visas expiring then i'd accept promotion as i didn't want to deal with the certain resentment the other 2 would express.

Turns out though, i was simply given a pay rise when they left and i was supposedly promoted, managers put me forward as their top man, the man who can, as it were, to TFL, while starting to treat me badly obviously through resentment of what i know and my real experience and knowledge to their blarney, a favourite expression of one of the managers was, "But we're still learning", life is a learning curve, last thing i'd ever think is i know it all and what it was is those people were suited to other careers, certainly not soft landscaping/maintenance manangers, more like base employees themselves, managers/supervisors and forepersons should know the job already, these are basics i'm referring to, still can't do what's necessary properly to this day, all the public get is sub standard work for far too much money they demand, Park Lane itself is worth more than £1,000,000 a year and a small fraction of that is spent maintaining/upgrading it with nothing but excuses made for not doing what's necessary which is why these places are degenerating constantly, company isn't even based in London and has no commitment to London public environs, well not the company but mangers in charge of these contracts.

But then they started taking the mick big time, shaved core employees from 7 when i started to 2 others apart from myself and employed as forepersons, so no actual workers apart from occasional unskilled agency and though i worked like a horse they considered they needn't do much at all as friends of managers and self important because of being contracted as forepersons, this was due to managers in other areas across the S.E acted criminally and collapsed other lucrative contracts so causing a crisis in the company, the core employees kept on were friends of the London and highways managers and did diddly squat compared to me who was working like a horse and getting the mick taken out of me for taking my job, working on behalf of the public trust, seriously and i had no help with getting unskilled agency workers to pull their weight etc, i was resented because of my experience and skills, which are considerable as i started in a company with affluent clients, there 8 years out of 10, 1989-99 and had to know my stuff, plant knowledge and method gardening etc, etc, taken advantage of by the managers and their 'personal friends' as it was put, while i worked myself into repetitive strain injury etc because i was committed to doing the best job i could for the London public and tourists to London, where they just saw the job as a cash cow and couldn't take it seriously and put as little effort in as possible for as much as they could get, i was even told one had a heart problem and couldn't do much manual work, bloody cheek employing him when somebody fit and could do the job could be employed in stead of a chancer who didn't know what he was doing.

I had enough after a time, had a vascular contraction which flipped a muscle in my forearm which nearly ripped muscle from bone, because of intense hoeing and everything when it came to a contract put forward for Bloom of Britain, the manager who should of been reinforcing my encouraging agency workers and other core employees to pull their weight was telling them to take it easy etc.

I refused to work for maintenance/soft landscaping under those conditions, though i suffered a repetitive strain injury and had to take some time off, they refused to pay me, i'd had enough and transferred to Arboriculture in Tower Hamlets, worked there for a year, same company different division, then 2 days after burying my father, day of the 2005 General Election, sleep problems and my being executor had shagged me completely but was given no compassionate leave to speak of and was rushed off my feet dealing with my fathers funeral myself while working hard as well and had an accident which nearly tore my wrist off when at the end of the day in St Paul's school in Tower hamlets somebody closed the security gate leaving my rucksack in the secure compound, shagged out completely i had to jump the railings, went over, got my rucksack, then jumping back over my wrist got caught in the railing heads when i jumped to the other side, 4-6 inches more height on the railing and my arm would have been torn off.

Anyway, company treated me like crap in maintenance and those managers ran me down to the arb' manager and hours after getting off the operating table to stitch a ligament torn from my wrist, as well as shearing the tip of the Scapel and fracturing the Ulna, i was being threatened with the sack if i didn't come in next day, whilst on high dose Codeine for pain management and out of my head on the Opiates, to at least do traffic management, injury was treated as though a joke and was wearing a false cast etc.

I shouldn't have even been in work never mind them demanding i do traffic control while large London Planes were being worked on and i was out of my head on the pain med's, just one more abuse from a manager, this time in the arb' division with the attitudes of maintenance and highways managers turning him against me.

Anyway.

I tried to institute a constructive tribunal as i had been treated completely out of order.

But was presented as mental because i was supposed to be a foreperson by contract but they never changed it from being base employee, from that point the company managers convinced the "pre hearing" what i said was nothing but lies and i wasn't even a foreman and a tribunal didn't happen.

The London and highways managers were up to all sorts of shenanigans, breaching health and safety, loss of industrial plants through thefts which never occured for insurance, pilfering plant stock meant for public landscaping for private jobs, essentially thieving, sabotaging contracts held by other public sector landscaping companies so tender would be brought forward and that company gaining new contracts, a lot of corruption all sorts. The new London manager in 2003 was working for a company such sabotage occurred and even stole the other company's Turf Reformer machine, bit like a lawn mower with blades on the side not underneath, when he left the other company where he was supervisor and joined the one i was working for a a manager with the other company's machine.

That one point of them not changing my contract as i trusted them when i was supposed to have been promoted to foreperson was enough to show the chairperson i was not in fact a foreperson as i'd said and make him believe everything else was rubbish, it was before the company went into crisis and cut staff levels etc and did trust them at that point, about 6 months later it all started becoming clear about corruption, i even contacted the Mayors department with a dossier, who the mayors secretary didn't do anything but warn those who were corrupt and conning the taxpayer and acting criminally i was making complaints against, so they could initiate damage control and cover things up.

I was the only one out of the lot of them telling the truth, i don't lie, at all, deceit and duplicity is beyond me, no matter if it harms me i tell the truth, i will not lie to anybody outside of white lies to save hurt feelings etc which is different, the employment contract situation is what they used to convince Stratford tribunals that what i'd said was fantasy.

[Didn't matter that my involvement with the family high court at the same time regards my son and his mother cracking up after somebody trying to kill her so our son was in care with foster parents, we are separated, meant my having a psychiatric assessment by default and there being nothing wrong with me whatsoever, the company i was working for that did this got away with it and managed to convince the Pre Hearing chairperson i was mental and wasn't even a foreperson (foreman) and was delusional.]

So it's important to make sure companies do renew or change contracts with promotion or taking on full time from probation period whatever.

If a company gives nothing but excuses regards contracts being corrected or renewed, my opinion is it's time to move on and have them challenged legally before it goes too far, like it did with me back in 2002-2005, my not doing so led to my being shafted and denied employee rights.

Pardon the long post to denote what issues can arise and the seriousness of such which is hard to explain in one paragraph.

Peace and good luck. :cool:

Phew !!

DeltaPan wrote: »

Yes, in a word.

:rotfl::rotfl:;)

DeltaPan

Indeed. :cool:

xx_Jo_xx

Hi all - I have an update and am even more confused than I was before!

My probationary period ended Dec 1st. My initial contract stated that the probationary period would be three months and permanent appointment was subject to a satisfactory probationary period.

At the end of my probationary period, no one said anything - I havent had a 1 to 1 with my line manager since November. Nothing was said regarding my contract.

At the meeting, I had been given the option to reduce my hours as I felt that full time was too much for me. I changed my working hours on Dec 8th from 37 hours pw to 30 hours pw.

Today, my employer has handed me a new contract dated the 8th December stating that I am subject to 1 additional month probationary period, which would have meant that my probationary period ended 8th January.

My employer noticed it and immediately said, thats a mistake and it should be an additional 2 months.

I asked why I was being kept on a probationary period, he said "Well theres a few things that we want to make sure are happening since the process in the office has changed."

Im not sure why having a new back office system put in, gives them reason to extend my probationary period.

He said I need to discuss it further with my line manager.

In the interim though, my line manager has announced that she is pregnant and I feel that my contract is not being formalised so that they can withdraw it and force me into going back full time when she leaves, but I dont know this, its just my suspicion.

Can someone please advise if they can do this??

Thanks in advance xxx

jdturk

my feeling regarding the probationary contract is either

1) they need to see if you are able to do the work required in less time, if not they will either offer you the previous hour or sack you
2) Your not good at your job and they are giving you a second chance

xx_Jo_xx

Thanks for that.

As far as it goes, I am good at my job. Im not late, Ive never been off (apart from the snow, which effected everyone in the office and not just me), I have been proving since the beginning of December that I can do the work in the reduced hours.....

These are my points. The only thing that seems to have changed is the fact my line manager is now pregnant.....

jdturk

xx_Jo_xx wrote: »

Thanks for that.

As far as it goes, I am good at my job. Im not late, Ive never been off (apart from the snow, which effected everyone in the office and not just me), I have been proving since the beginning of December that I can do the work in the reduced hours.....

These are my points. The only thing that seems to have changed is the fact my line manager is now pregnant.....

I would ignore the fact your line manager is pregnant, it could be for multiple reasons and if you are doing your job well then I wouldn't panic over it and would see how things go

jdturk

ps I didn't mean it to sound blunt the reply before the one above