CCA letter response - what does it mean??

bananah

Hi,
My wife and I are in a DMP, and have decided to double check all of our CCA's, as suggested on the forum here.

We have started the process, and have had a few responses thus far, and I wondered if anyone could help as I'm baffled as to what the responses mean.

1. Barclaycard (mine)
Replied with a letter stating (I'll leave out bits or shorten where I can, pls excuse typos!):
The info we must be provide to you under the terms of section 78 is prescribed by the Consumer credit agreement and by the CC Regulations 1983.

Under sectn 78 we must supply you with a copy of your executed agreement and a statement of account.

pls find enclosed a copy of your latest exec agreement. This is a statement of the term sof your agg with us and incorporates any variations to the terms made since entering into the agg. However, the int rates have been omitted and the fees and charges have been suspended and are no longer applicable due to the current status of your account.

Then follows details of the amounts owed, balance and monthly payments.

With ref to the CPR we have provided you with the sufficient info to allow you to understand your position. the CPR does not confer an automatic entitlement to documents before proceedings start. CPR 31.16 provides that a party may apply to the court for pre-action disclosure in certain limited circumstances, which do not apply here. The application must be supported by evidence - and the visual order is for applicant to pay the costs of the application, including the respondents costs, together with the reponsdents costs of complying with any order that is made as a result (CPR 48.1(2))

WHile there is no formal ob on our part to provide docs in answer to Vaildation of Debt, we have undertaken steps to provide you with the contractual terms under which your financial obligations arise and a statement of account.

I am fully satisfied taht the sum remains legally due and payable etc. Blah blah blah, if you do not continue we will issue a default against you.

Yours blah blah

There then follows a sheet which has details about the card (it was originally a Morgan Stanley Card), called "Everything you need to know about the Morgan Stanley Card", which has details of APR, interest information, allocation of payments, Min repayment, amount of credit, fees, charges and default charges. These are all general, and do not mention my card in particular.

There is also a 'credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974' It is a copy as far as I can tell. It is again a general sheet with no mention of my details, dates or anything else. The next sheet is a list of terms.

2. My wife's Barclaycard
Same letter, although it misses out all the details about the statement of account etc, and says:

as your account is in recovery, further info relating to the current state can be obtained from your recovery team or agency.

She also then has the terms and details of the card, but not her specific agreement.

So, I have no idea where this leaves us! Can anyone shed any light?

Thank you so much.

Leixlip1

They've probbaly done enough under S78 request and I've received similar information from them in the past. To find out if they have a fully executed cca I made a Subject Access Request via the Data Protection Act - costs £10, and they couldn't produce one.

bananah

Sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand the reply!

We had asked for a CCA, but are you saying that they don't have to produce one? Should we pursue it further?

thanks

GeorgeUK

When you make a CCA request unders s.77/78 of the Act, they are allowed to give you a reproduction. This should contain the same information that was on the original CCA but can omit signatures.

For a CCA to be enforcable via the courts, they would need to provide a copy of the signed original. Lexlip saw a copy of the original by sending in a subject access request under the Data Protection Act. This requires them to provide a copy of all documentation and data so a reproduction would be of no use.

Some users here have found that after sending a SAR, they sometimes don't even have a copy of the CCA at all and the reproduction was made up from data held on their computers. A copy of the original document would be required in court but until you know what was on the original, you can't really say whether it is enforcable or not.

bananah

So, the upshot is we can't really do anything much from here - surely all creditors will pursue this option? Which means even if the CCA is unenforceable there's nothing we can do?

stapeley

It has always been advised as a defence action . It has shut up DCA,s who have made allsorts of demands and threats. There has been High Court "TEST CASES " which resulted in a kick in the teeth for companies that claim to write off debt due to unenforceable agreements .
But it is still the strong view of most independent lawyers that the actual signed original copy has to be made available to a court during legal proceedings.
Most collection companies duck out of court cases at the last moment when they realise they would be challenged over this in court . This is why a SAR is most useful.

GeorgeUK

Bananah, if you get hold of a copy of the original agreement then you can see if it is enforcable or not. Once you know this then you can rely on s.127 of the Act which states if an agreement is not properly executed then a court MUST NOT issue an enforcement order.

So you win.

bananah

Yes, but HOW do I get hold of the original agreement? That's what I don't understand.

Thanks,

bananah

I'm lost. I give up.

If you read up you'll see that someone has said "get hold of a copy of the original agreement then you can see if it is enforcable or not".

I imagined this whole process to be fairly easy to follow and go through with, but I cannot even begin to see what to do next. Its a debt, I guess I will just pay it, as I should and forget the whole bloody CCA request!

bloodofareptile

bananah wrote: »

I'm lost. I give up.

If you read up you'll see that someone has said "get hold of a copy of the original agreement then you can see if it is enforcable or not".

I imagined this whole process to be fairly easy to follow and go through with, but I cannot even begin to see what to do next. Its a debt, I guess I will just pay it, as I should and forget the whole bloody CCA request!

I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to TheVoiceOfReason. They've joined today and made three rather unhelpful posts.

The original credit agreement can be obtained from a company by making a Subject Access Request. This costs 10 pounds, and they have to send you copies of all actual records they hold on you, not just reproductions. This would include your signed credit agreement.

What you have asked for, for 1 pound, they are allowed to send you a "reproduction" of your CCA, which means any old thing they've cobbled together that may or may not be signed that "represents" your credit agreement.

Once you would have the SAR information, you could determine if the CCA they hold for you is enforceable. There is no way of determining that from what they have sent you (but what they have sent is legally what they are required to send).

I hope that makes sense - this isn't really my area!

bananah

Ha ha - its one of the first posts I have truly understood. I consider myself a very intelligent person, so maybe I'm just blinded by frustration.

Thanks for your post - do you know how one goes about making an SAR? Is there a letter template I can find on here?

Thanks again