Contractual Periodic Tenancy Agreement - what are our obligations?

9wizard9

I'm hoping someone with some lettings experience can offer some advice and expertise.

We're currently coming to the end of the fixed period of an AST, and have just asked the letting agent for the property to talk to the LL about letting us stay on on a periodic basis. I've just had a reply from the agent:

"At <letting agent> we use a Contractual Periodic Tenancy Agreement for rolling contracts. This is whereby both parties give two months notice should they wish to vacate the property."

I'm assuming they want to use a Contractual rather than Statutory for two main reasons:
a) To have a reason to charge both us and the LL some agency fees for drawing up the contract

b) To allow them to include a clause stating that we as tenants need to give 2 months notice if we want to leave (already in our current contract, but I believe unenforceable).

To be honest, this doesn't sound too unreasonable, but I just wanted to understand our position with regard to a couple of things:

1. Presumably this will be a new AST if it involves signing a new contract, so the LL would not be able to evict us in less than six months if he decides he no longer wants to let the house even though it is periodic? Does this commit us to a minimum of six months also?

2. Is it possible to enforce a clause that requires the tenants to give 2 months notice, or is this overridden by the one month required for a statutory periodic tenancy?

I don't have any reason to think the LL wants us out, as we've been ideal tenants, but want to understand our rights before we sign anything - I suspect the letting agent just wants their fees, hence the insistance on new contract.

Soot2006

I think I'd say thanks but no thanks, statutory contract is fine!

franklee

9wizard9 wrote: »

1. Presumably this will be a new AST if it involves signing a new contract, so the LL would not be able to evict us in less than six months if he decides he no longer wants to let the house even though it is periodic? Does this commit us to a minimum of six months also?

The LL would be able to give you notice as per the contract. This LL can't seek possession within first six months is already past if you've been there six months already.

9wizard9 wrote: »

2. Is it possible to enforce a clause that requires the tenants to give 2 months notice, or is this overridden by the one month required for a statutory periodic tenancy?

If you sign a new contract you won't be on a statutory periodic tenancy. Therefore notice will be what the contract says (with the proviso it's fair, e.g. you get to give similar notice). If you want a statutory periodic tenancy then sign nothing and I'll happen automatically. If you've been good tenants I doubt they'd give you notice just for wanting a statutory periodic tenancy.

9wizard9 wrote: »

I don't have any reason to think the LL wants us out, as we've been ideal tenants, but want to understand our rights before we sign anything - I suspect the letting agent just wants their fees, hence the insistance on new contract.

If you don't like it don't sign. Personally I think a tenant having to give two months notice puts you at a huge disadvantage when looking for the next rental as other tenants on one months notice will be able to keep nabbing the good stuff before you.

You can always pay the fee for the agent to do nothing at all, or speak to the LL who will be bothered about keeping good tenants more than about the agent getting their fee and may let you stay on a statutory periodic tenancy.

DVardysShadow

If you don't need more than 2 months security of tenure then let it go statutory periodic.

G_M

Deal with the LL direct if you can.

Don't sign a new contract unless you want guaranteed security for 6 or 12 months in which case ask for a new 6/12 month fixed term contract.

If you want to go periodic, do/sign nothing and it becomes statutory periodic automatically. And you need give only 1 month notice (LL must give you 2 months). This Contractual Periodic Tenancy Agreement is aload of xxxx**!

Your mistake was to go to the agent at all! They saw this as an opportunity to charge a fee for a new contract. If' you'd done nothing, and they'd done nothing, you'd just have gone statutory periodic automatically.

9wizard9

Thanks for all the responses. It's a bit tricky to go direct to the LL as they're in South Africa - we'd have to communicate via snail mail. The agent came to us to ask what we wanted to do, so we didn't really have the option of just keeping quiet and letting it go onto statutory periodic.

I guess we could call their bluff and just wait, but I'd be a bit worried that if we stop communicating we'll stop being seen as ideal tenants and they might serve us notice. We're looking to buy again next (renting was only a temporary stopgap), so I'd really rather not risk having to find somewhere else.

Franklee - with regard to the six months thing, are you saying that as we've been here for six months on the original AST, signing a new periodic agreement won't give us security for six months even though it's a new agreement (I don't want to sign up for another six month term as we may well want to be out before then). Not particularly bothered if we don't get the security, but thought we might do due to the way that the housing act seems to be worded. But I'm no lawyer!

G_M

When does you existing fixed term end? How soon?

Go back to the agents and politely say you're not convinced by a contractual periodic tenancy. You'd rather just let the contract automatically go periodic. Ask them to explain to the LL what a statutory periodic tenancy is and whether he's happy with this as that is your preference.

I'm sure the LL in SA won't want to lose you.

If the fixed term ends soon, negotiating will slow things down. The moment the fixed term ends (literally that day) you become statutory periodic tenants and the whole discussion becomes irrelevant.

ps - whatever you do keep paying the rent!

adg1

9wizard9 wrote: »

signing a new periodic agreement won't give us security for six months even though it's a new agreement

A statutory periodic is not something you have to sign - its something that happens automatically at the point your original fixed term tenancy ends.

Don't agree to anything and ask for a draft copy of the agency's 'Contractual Periodic Tenancy' and read it through, cover to cover, carefully. I would think, by looking at your original post the only clause they will add is that you have to offer 2 months notice to leave the tenancy but from no particular time ie there is no new fixed term.

If this is the case then not much will have changed and you all might as well go to a statutory periodic (no charges to anyone!) with you promising to be as up front as possible with them and your LL in offering them as much notice as possible when you do intend to leave.

9wizard9 wrote: »

2. Is it possible to enforce a clause that requires the tenants to give 2 months notice, or is this overridden by the one month required for a statutory periodic tenancy?

It is possible to enforce this is you have entered into another fixed term agreement or sign a new contract.

9wizard9

We've got about a month and a half left on the fixed term - I'll see if we can string out negotiations without annoying the agents / LL too much - hard to know what info the agent is passing on, as presumably it's in their interest to get a new contract and associated fees. Just a bit worried that they'll see the preference for statutory as a signal that we're not planning to stay long, and use that as a reason to serve notice (or encourage the LL to).

We'll certainly keep paying the rent though!

G_M

Just a bit worried that they'll see the preference for statutory as a signal that we're not planning to stay long, and use that as a reason to serve notice (or encourage the LL to).

No reason for this. It is really very normal. Probobly the majority (I'd guess 80%) of tenancies just drift into periodic tenancies at the end of the initial fixed term. Sometimes after discussion, sometimes without.