council tax issue/ council

Diego_Shock

Im in a spot of bother. I got a council after me for council tax for the years between 2002-2004. I am self employed and in those years i would of earned enough to just about feed myself. I wrote to the council with self assesment tax forms attached and they told me i was liable and that there was no chance of benefit as they only have a 3 month backdated rule!! I've explained I would of applied for benefit at the time if I had known.
Surely this is not fair?
I honestly believed the landlord was paying it. I believe there might of been a one year contract from 1999 for the flat but to this date I have not seen it.
How do rolling contracts work if people have moved in and out over the period of time, post the time on the tenancy agreement?
I paid money to the landlord over this time but refused to pay for about 5 months as the property was in a bad state.
If there had been a contract would i get away with non payment of rent for so long?
Why does the council only take the landlords view on the situation and he has supplied the wrong dates? i Have told the council the right date i was there but they choose to ignore me!!
Thanks in advance for any advice especially with the rolling contract issue.

princeofpounds

Surely this is not fair?

Unfortunately it's not a question of fairness, it's a question of the law.

It doesn't matter who you believed was paying for it, as the occupying tenant you were liable.

You will have to try to find physical evidence of the timing of your occupation and work through this with the council. If you can't, you will have to face the legal penalties.

Sorry to sound harsh, but that's pretty much the situation.

Diego_Shock

Thanks for your reply POP.

I agree and have eventually been quoted the law in my 2nd stage complaint letter. I did have a court case arranged and they cancelled through to mal administration I guess!
I have tried to discuss with the council but they seem unwilling and bullyish in their approach and only relying on the landlords evidence. I have never said I would not pay i just want to pay my share when it comes to it. Unfortunately the law states my share is the lot!!
AS for the benefit rule this must be unlawful.

princeofpounds

have tried to discuss with the council but they seem unwilling and bullyish in their approach and only relying on the landlords evidence.

Yeah sounds about right.

G_M

Councils have a duty to collect council tax. If they didn't, they would not have enough money to pay for social services, gritting the roads in winter etc etc!!
If you lived in the property, you are liable for council tax.

How do rolling contracts work if people have moved in and out over the period of time, post the time on the tenancy agreement?

Not exactly sure what you mean by "people have moved in and out", but basically if the fixed term of a tenancy ends (ie after 6 months) and no other agreement is signed, the contract just continues as a 'periodic tenancy'. Same rights (ie to live there) and obligations (ie to pay rent AND council tax).

If for a period you did not pay rent due to "the property was in a bad state" that does not affect your liability for council tax. That is between you and the landlord, not the council.

If there had been a contract would i get away with non payment of rent for so long?

If there had NOT been a contract would you have got away with living there so long?!

lincroft1710

Because this debt is quite old it may explain the council's attitude, in their eyes you've avoided paying and are now trying to make excuses as to why you shouldn't pay. Also in their eyes landlords are more believable than short term tenants.

However unless you are being wilfully obstructive they should still treat you with civility, but the onus is on you to prove that the council's understanding of the facts is incorrect.

Soot2006

If there had been a contract would i get away with non payment of rent for so long?

I think a contract doesn't need to be written for it to be established. There are statutory laws that cover this, so if you and the LL are both in agreement that you are a tenant ... then, yes, you are liable for duties such as council tax.

Diego_Shock

I never avoided them in my eyes. I have lived in the area since and payed all bills, on registers etc This is a first for me. The council have wrote to me saying that they previously held the landlord liable until the landlord supplied my details this year (2009). After 5 years that the biggest grace time I have ever heard of!! I am not avoiding the council and never have done. In fact when the bill originally arrived I was the person following it up with them , not the council pushing me. It seems the council used me as my own evidence.
I have to laugh , understanding the the tenant /landlord is a quagmire. At one stage the landlord physically removed one of the the tenants from the room , says he will fill it, which he never does. thus leaving a 2 rooms filled in a 3 bed flat .
We are now liable for that rooms council tax. Wheres the contract in that!?!!?

CIS

Council Tax is due on the property as a whole, you where always liable for the council tax due on that room - even if you had an agreement to apportion the payments you where still liable for 100% of the charge due.

Depending on the agreements you may come under the rules for an HMO as defined in the council tax (liability of owners) regs 1992 . If the occupation of the property comes under the HMO rules then the L/L remains liable for council tax due.