How do I get a baby to sleep during the night?

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

DD1 never really slept much at night (or day for that matter). And I could never even breathe without waking her up in the morning - I used to dream of being able to have a cuppa without her demanding attention. She was a cosleeping, exclusively breastfed, attachment parented baby.

DD2 wasn't too bad. Like many people, I didn't have the luxury of a downstairs to retreat to, and as DD2 had to sleep in with DD1 (no room for a cot in my room, so growing out of the Moses basket meant relocation to the next room - and I found that keeping babies in bed with me, however nice, meant I didn't sleep at all) any tendency to whinge had to be nipped in the bud.

I never put DD2 to bed so early - when I was pregnant, I wasn't in bed asleep for the night before Mastermind started, so why would I expect the baby who shared my routine for nine months to suddenly start snoring just when I was usually at my busiest?

I focused on the witching hours first - I knew that if I could get some kip between 12 and 4am, I could function. So, I made sure she was fed at about 11pm and then no nightlight, no chat, nothing other than company (hand on her back) anytime she woke before 4am. It took a couple of weeks, gradually doing it and not giving up if she had a bad night (Ibuprofen syrup is better than calpol BTW - it's cheaper and works overnight - if they are actually in pain - but not on an empty stomach) - but she went from 11 - 4, then 11 - 4.30, then 10 - 4.15, then 9 - 5, then 9 - 6.30am.

And it is definitely better to keep quiet rather than passively imply someone is to be criticised for weaning earlier than this year's perceived wisdom - mainly because, by next year, the guidelines will probably have changed again. When DD1 was born, it had to be started by 10 - 14 weeks or they would fall behind, never learn how to chew, reject everything, become allergic/asthmatic/psychopathic/working class. And breastfed babies were deemed underweight and needing additional nutrition, but could never ever be allowed a glimpse of a bottle of formula or all the split nipples, smelling dodgy and pneumatic breasts would instantly be cancelled out forever.

Six years later when DD2 was born, it had to be done at 22 weeks precisely. Two years later, it wasn't until 9 months, then 2 years after that, it was all change again. Breastfeeding was still ideal, but by then, they had decided weighing breastfed kids wasn't worth the hassle as they didn't match the charts. Mixed feeding was still treated as one step up from feeding them Pedigree Chum though.

DD2 decided she wanted my food by 13 weeks. So she had it - some in her hands, some in her mouth. (No I don't use salt and everything was cooked fresh). No allergies, no faddies, she eats almost all vegetables, fruit by the ton, fish, shellfish, meat, etc. And she had a bottle of formula from her dad last thing at night.

I saw the end of a clip on TV last week suggesting that a new feeding discovery is being called a revolution in nutrition. It's called child led weaning...where, shock, horror, if the baby wants food from your plate, you give it to them


And the Don't-ever-let-baby-even-emit-a-sniffle-or-fart-without-instant-comfort-or-you'll-traumatise-them-forever school of childcare is, quite frankly, complete Pollock (never mind carp, it's serious fish here). Babies are traumatised by broken down, insecure, barely functioning mums losing the plot when faced with the unreasonable expectations of people who generally don't have babies of their own or can't remember what it was really like. They don't suffer if a sensible woman realises that she is at a point of losing it and chooses to step back for 5 minutes to take a breath and gather herself and her thoughts before returning to the cot.

mumslave

karenx wrote: »

My first son who is now 6 was wonderful when he was a baby, from about 2 weeks old he slept right through the night. Occasional night he would wake up but as soon as he got his dummy he drifted back to sleep.
Fast forward 6 years and my baby is a nightmare during the night! During the day he is as good as gold! He has about 2 or 3 naps during the day of about 30mins each, no problem getting him to sleep for these either. He gets all grumpy and once rocked for a few mins he goes to sleep with ease and I can put him in his cot and half an hour later he will wake up all happy!

It may help to put him down before he is actually fully asleep, to help him learn to settle himself off, without needing rocked.

karenx wrote: »

He goes to bed at about 8ish for the night, I give him a bath using bathtime things and then he has a bottle and he goes straight to sleep. He will wake at about 11 and thats when the problems start! He will want another feed and once given that he will either stay up for about an hour or be really really grumpy and just cry for ages to try get back to sleep. Once asleep again, can sometimes take up to an hour to get him to settle he will wake up every hour through the night, sometimes he wants a wee drink other times he just gurns for ages.

Babies have 'light sleep' times where if they havent learned how to settle themselves off, they can wake and fuss for ages. Normally its from around 10.30-11.30pm, 1-2am and 4-5am. Does your wee man wake around those times? If he wakes for a feed at 11pm, how much does he take? Again what might help here is helping him learn to sleep without needing you to rock him a bit first.

karenx wrote: »

And at 7am thats him up till about 11am when he goes for a nap!
Im totally lost as to what to try to get him to sleep. I thought it would of helped once he was on foods but its not. He has just turned 5 months old and he has his 3 meals in the day and 3 full bottles of about 200ml each.

At 5 months old, milk is still the most important for him. Do you give him solids then milk? If so it is best to do it the other way round, give him all his milk at each feed time, then offer solids. When he reachs 6/7 months old, you would give half milk first, then food, then rest of milk, and from 8 months old, all solids first. It might be that he is not actually taking enough in solid foods to get him through the night without needing more milk.

karenx wrote: »

Anybody have any tried and tested methods of helping a baby sleep through the night?

Hi there, all mine slept through the night by 3 months (7-7, they were 11-7 from about 6 weeks) and this new baby will too. I have been told I am 'lucky' but honestly I dont think luck has anything to do with it.

I suppose it depends how you like to parent. I had all mine in a routine by around 4 weeks old, feeding and sleeping times. Obviously it wasnt exact, they arent robots but even so its entirely possible. IN the first few weeks it was just making sure they were up by 7am and in bed by 7pm, then gradually it was nap times and feed times as they got more able.

By six months, all of them were up at 7am, bottle, 9am nap for 45 mins to an hour, bottle at 10.30-11am nap from 12.30-2.30, bottle when up from that big nap, and then bath bottle and bed by 6.30pm/7pm.

I also blacked out their rooms by around 6 months old (doesnt really apply in the winter) so there was no light at all in their rooms, sounds odd doesnt it, but as you say, you cant sleep in the light, not all babies can either. The dark is proven to release natural chemicals to make you sleepy.

By six months they were all in grobags, but I made sure they were long grobags, with enough at the end to tuck firmly under their mattress, and a light cotton sheet pulled and secured tight over the top. This was how they slept happily until 18 months old when they went into a cot bed (mace still sleeps like this now at 15 months)

Sorry if i come across as patronising. I am not suggesting there is only one way to get a baby to sleep through the night or anything like that, you have to try to find whats best for you and yours. Its just how I did things and will do again with my fourth.

Sublime_2

None of my children were brilliant sleepers as babies. When we moved house they both slept like logs, so I think it must have been living on a main road that caused them to kep waking up, and having adjoining neighbours, which we haven't got now.

Before we moved, what worked, was playing a lullaby cd at night, and giving a special night time formula milk. If they woke up in the night I would just put the cd on again.

milliebear00001

Much truth in there JoJo. I am done with the parenting debate as my youngest is now three, and the entrenched views of some women, who seem utterly convinced they know what is best for every baby under the sun, are what drove me nuts back when mine were tinies.

With the benefit of hindsight, I often think it's ironic that the baby I did everything 'right' with, is the one that still tries to get into my bed at night, has every allergy under the sun and is generally a bit of a pain in the !!!!, while the baby I weaned early, didn't breastfeed, and 'forced' into her own room (for twelve hours unbroken sleep every night!) at ten months, is the healthiest, best sleeping kid I have come across...but I guess that's all just down to personality and chance isn't it!

OP - it depends on what you're comfortable with, but at some point (maybe not now) you will need to decide between your sleep and your baby's needs. This is of course, unless you are in the rare group who are lucky enough to be able to manage without a full night's rest until your baby decides they will do this for themsleves - could be 8 months, could be four years. You have another child to consider, and this will have an enormous impact on what you decide to do, as will your working circumstances etc. Your choice.

kezlou

karenx wrote: »

A friend had recommended a powder called ashton & parsons. Heard of that?

Kezlou- I will try the lavender under the heater also!! I use the bedtime bath, the wash and also either the cream or oil!
Might try leaving a tissue spirted with my bodyspray or perfume at bottom of his cot too!
Thank you

I used the ashtons powder for both of mine and its worked fantastically, the only place i found it though was in Boots pharmacy. Another thing i did for teething which my friend does now is freeze carrot sticks or give freshly chopped ones. I know sounds disgusting, just chop the carrots, freeze them, then when the baby wants to bite give them a frozen carrot to chomp on. Within about 15 minutes it will be a gooey mess but the baby gets to play with them, bite and a snack at the same time. To be honest i had never had the time to chop up carrots daily thats why i froze them instead.

Just another thought as he's teething your little one might have a bit of blocked nose or tightened airways, instead of lavender oil, put eucalyptus oil in a hot bowl of water instead. Think its costs about 39p for a large bottle our of home bargains.

JoJo:- Totally agree with you, the amount of times i was told different things by health visitors was unreal, especially 1)being told breastfeeding was wrong and disgusting (and yes i was told that) 2) you cant feed babies real food at 5months (i can and will). I far as i was concerned i went by gut reaction and the childs needs. After all if something is wrong they will tell you.
I was told constantly to feed my youngest mash potato and runny food when he was five months old, my response he does not like soppy, runny food he prefers cheese and cucumber so thats what he's getting. To this day my youngest still hates gooey food, while my eldest loves mash potato.
don't even get me started on those health charts, apparently both of my children were on the starvation scale, but they were both fat with very cheeks and happy as larry. Health visitors couldn't understand it. My response was they breastfed and the scales you have are based on formula fed babies they completely different. Now paediatrician prefer to ignore the charts and go by each individual breast fed child.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Thanks Millie!

BTW, the attachment parented kid is now 17 and, whilst she never really misbehaved as a child (never really did much of anything, tbh), seems to be following an attachment-style relationship with her boyfriend. You know the sort, where they can't function without the other half of the symbiote and spend all day every day with them and then can't do a thing at night because they're on the phone/texting half the night on their Skype, not your connection (so you can't actually stop them, especially when they lock themself in the toilet purporting to be in there for the intended purpose but are really continuing the conversation)?

Nightmare. And her father's younger kids are 3 and 4 and have never slept more than about 45 minutes in one go at night. They sleep during the day. Which is a nightmare for his wife, who works from 4am - 5pm every day - she gets back from work, he says 'you look after them because I've been up with them since you ran away to work'. He goes to sleep until midnight, leaves her to deal with them and then the cycle starts again.

She thought it would get better when the older one started nursery. He hasn't gone to nursery, because the attachment parenting rules (which he follows to the letter, other than the bit about Mum being the best person to be with them) state that kids should be kept away from formal education settings until the very last moment, when the law says they must be educated.

Now he's talking about homeschooling as being a better way to bring them up than sending children away to be taught by strange women - they might learn about meat eating (or being 'tainted by flesh' in his words) and having opinions of their own.

I can see the lights have gone out in her eyes. She's just a shell of a person now.

Still, enough about me and the ex. (takes deep breath)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

If you steam the carrots a bit before freezing them, it makes them sweeter and easier to digest.

feelinggood_2

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

And the Don't-ever-let-baby-even-emit-a-sniffle-or-fart-without-instant-comfort-or-you'll-traumatise-them-forever school of childcare is, quite frankly, complete Pollock (never mind carp, it's serious fish here). Babies are traumatised by broken down, insecure, barely functioning mums losing the plot when faced with the unreasonable expectations of people who generally don't have babies of their own or can't remember what it was really like. They don't suffer if a sensible woman realises that she is at a point of losing it and chooses to step back for 5 minutes to take a breath and gather herself and her thoughts before returning to the cot.

Please remember "Pls be nice to all MoneySavers.". It is fine to state an opposing rule, but being rude and aggressive isn't nice.

There is also a difference between letting baby CIO (as suggested) and taking a breather when it gets too much.

Also, if you have a baby who doesn't sleep well, another option is to maximise sleep. OP - you said naps aren't possible, have you tried an eye mask? Lying down in a dark room is better than nothing too. Co-sleeping for the whole night might allow you to get more sleep. What about baby-wearing during the day to get baby more rest, therefore less likely to get overtired and fight sleep?

OP - what is your routine like during the day? Does baby gets lots of fresh air and lots of stimulation?

What about switching to normal milk? A lot of babies find the hungrier formula just too heavy. A fortnight feeding regularly, on demand, might help?

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Not intentionally being rude or aggressive to you or anyone else personally.

But I think the mindset I am referring to deserves dismissal. I referred to that as Pollock, I didn't actually attack anyone and say I felt they were talking pellagic fish species.

If anyone does feel I was being personal, I am sorry, it wasn't my intention.

Having been on the receiving end of it from parenting guru devotees/health visitors/competitive parent poker players/people who actually have never been like this -

stood there at 3 am, dishevelled, disorientated, smelling of sour milk, wondering why, when you have followed all the rules exactly as they said, your baby is still crying, your soon to be ex is screeching at you that you are incompetent and an unfit mother because you weren't awake and sprinting to the infant before it even woke up, having just spent the previous five months permanently attached at the nipple and apologising to him for being so pathetic as to need a Caesarian Section, thus ruining his birth experience and proving that you weren't capable of anything every woman can do without a thought and his declaring that the child obviously doesn't love you, so it would be better off if you went and killed yourself because then he could find someone capable of being a proper woman, one capable of putting the simple instructions in the expert's books into practice...

- I wouldn't like anyone to think that I wish them to feel that way.

In fact, it's because of how destroying this mindset can be that I try to say that babies do cry and they don't have to seen to the instant they breathe a bit louder.

Babies cry. That's what they do. It's not a failure to have a crying baby. Or one that doesn't sleep 6pm - 8am without a squeak. When they get older they argue and answer back. Perhaps crying is just practice for this. Some could sleep on a washing line, some just don't want to miss a thing. And some are just plain grumpy.

We don't all sleep 7 hours a night 11 - 6 either.

But, on the other hand, I also think that regimented let-the-poor-little-blighters-scream-blue-murder-until-they-pass-out-from-exhaustion-never-feed-them-until-the-second-hand-clicks-over-to-the-4-hours-don't-kiss-hug-or-fuss-them school (especially when coupled with the what on earth would you want your kid feed from that when there are bottles in the shops theory) is also a sure fire way to bring a joyless quality to your life and ensure that you have emotionally stunted, repressed and intensely angry children in the future.

So I've probably upset both camps now.

Nothing new there. Oh well.

JBD

JoJo, I quite agree with you. When I had my 1st baby over 21 years ago I never saw a health visitor other than having him weighed at clinic. The only baby book I ever read was the free booklet in the bounty pack and of course there were no parenting websites. So really parents just used to go on common sense and the advice of their own parents. We all managed somehow though!.

skintchick

karenx wrote: »

Thanks for all that advice! He is teething yes, I give him teething gel every 4 hours if he needs it. I dont usully give him any medicine though- might try that also! A friend had recommended a powder called ashton & parsons. Heard of that?
I let him sleep when he needs it, as if he isnt tired he will put up a fight if I try get him to sleep. So when he gets gurny or rubs his eyes I put him down for a sleep.
I might try put him down for bedtime earlier, like you my OH gets home later so he only just gets to see him for about 5 mins before he goes to sleep. But like you said- needs must!!
I do end up bringing him into bed with me half way through the night as he wont settle again. Sometimes I will lie in my bed with him to get him to sleep or rock him in my arms etc and once in his cot he is settled for a few hours. Its just after he wakes up that first time he wont settle or go to sleep easily. So I end up keeping him in my bed in his sleeping bed. I know so meny ppl say you shouldnt bring baby into bed but if its the only thing to try get them to settle then you really have no choice! And Id rather lie down with no sleep but still getting a little rest and even closing my eyes than sitting up next to the cot trying to settle him.
Believe me I never leave him crying! If I need the toilet or heating a bottle etc its about the only time I do leave him crying!! I wait about a minute if he cries in his cot before I go see to him. I could never leave him to cry himself to sleep himself and he would end up waking my other son up also in the next room!

Thanks for all your help girls!!

Kezlou- I will try the lavender under the heater also!! I use the bedtime bath, the wash and also either the cream or oil!
Might try leaving a tissue spirted with my bodyspray or perfume at bottom of his cot too!
Thank you

Hi

I've not used those powders but people have told me they are good. I tend to think anythingis worth a try. I gave DD Calpol before bed tonight and she went off really quickly, so perhaps it is worth a try yourself.

Definitely continue with naps when he is sleepy - you knwo best when that is, and you will probably find there is a pattern to it.

Lavender is great - I use it in DD's bath. And for somethign that smells of you, you can leave a breastpad in the cot (that you've useD) or even wear a shirt for a few hours and then pop that in there. I tuck a teddy inside my top and wipe it on my boobs (!) and then pop it next to her.

As for pulling baby into bed with you, there is no problem with that as long as your partner is happy with it and you practice safe bedsharing. I'm sure you do, but for the benefit of anyone considering it:

Do not use duvets

Do not put pillows near babies

Do not drink or smoke if you bedshare. Nor should your partner.

I find that cosleeping (bedsharing) is best for us and helps me maximise my sleep at the moment. You can also get beside cribs that attach to the bed (Google Cosatto Olivia for an example) and we have that one but currently she isn;t in it.

you said you use bottles but I'm not sure if you use breastmilk or formula. If breastmilk, then consider feeding direct from the boob at night as you can get them popped on so quick if they bedshare with you and it makes it all as painless as possible.

How was last night?