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Ebay sale - Credit Card Chargeback - Paypal Woe
Thomo2710
Posts: 80 Forumite
in Credit cards
Hello there,
Can somebody please advise me as im at my wits end with this now.
Story is this.
On June 25th 2009 i sold an xbox 360 on ebay - the buyer paid with paypal and everything went fine.
Fast forward to September 15th 2009
I recieve an email from paypal saying they have taken £71.99 from my account as the buyer has opened up a credit card chargeback, they are investigating but have taken the funds and put them on temp hold.
I contacted the buyer asking what the hell was going on and why has he made a CC chargeback 3 months after buying the item and he told me he had had his credit card cloned and £2500 spent on it so disputed everything on it he didnt recognise (my xbox sale being 1 of them)
He quickly admitted it was his error and he would contact Clydesdale and Paypal and get it sorted and the chargeback cancelled.
On Oct 9th Paypal reversed the claim and gave me my money back in my paypal account - all was sorted so i thought
On 15 Oct The money was re-taken from my paypal account and is now god knows where as the 15th was the 30th day since the claim was open and on the 30th day paypal then review the case by a specialist.
Numerous calls to Paypal to get it sorted and still nothing.
Paypal are saying the reversal back to me on the 9th was an admin error and should not have taken place becasue i didnt provide them with proof of delivery (DHL did not have the manifest avaialable at the time) but i did provide them with a copy of me and the buyers 35 email conversation where he states in cear black and white that it was an error on his part and the chargeback was done in error.
Fast forward to today - 4 months down the line.
The buyer still has my money and my xbox and my Paypal balance is -£16.
Paypal are saying that as soon as the chargeback is made then the money is returned straight back to the claimant immediately and the money is in the buyers credit card account.
The buyer is saying that there is no record on his statements that shows the money as going back in and he has a record on his October statement which shows that Payment was made back to me (which presumably is the 9th Oct)
He is however unwilling to provide me with evidence of this though by sending me a copy of the statement (with everything else blacked out of course)
He did say that his old credit card account was closed down and a new 1 opened when the card was reported as cloned - has the money been sent back to the now redundant non existing account?
Paypal say they dont have it and are fighting Clydesdale on my behlaf (what they are doing baffles me)
Clydesdale are telling the buyer that there is no waqy possible the money will have been put back into his account.
Ive told him that this has been dragging on for 4 months now and if not sorted by the 75th Paypal day then id be passing the case over to the police as he is being unco-operative and unhelpful, now he said that that was a threat and will no longer answer any emails/calls from me.
Im going around in circles Paypal blame Clydesdale, Clydesdale blame Paypal, the buyer blames me, i blame the buyer.
Fact is is im still an xbox and £71 missing!
Where do i stand please?
What exactly happens when a chargeback claim is made?
What can i do next to rectify this problem?
I appreciate anybodies help as this is really getting to me now.
Kind Regards
Can somebody please advise me as im at my wits end with this now.
Story is this.
On June 25th 2009 i sold an xbox 360 on ebay - the buyer paid with paypal and everything went fine.
Fast forward to September 15th 2009
I recieve an email from paypal saying they have taken £71.99 from my account as the buyer has opened up a credit card chargeback, they are investigating but have taken the funds and put them on temp hold.
I contacted the buyer asking what the hell was going on and why has he made a CC chargeback 3 months after buying the item and he told me he had had his credit card cloned and £2500 spent on it so disputed everything on it he didnt recognise (my xbox sale being 1 of them)
He quickly admitted it was his error and he would contact Clydesdale and Paypal and get it sorted and the chargeback cancelled.
On Oct 9th Paypal reversed the claim and gave me my money back in my paypal account - all was sorted so i thought
On 15 Oct The money was re-taken from my paypal account and is now god knows where as the 15th was the 30th day since the claim was open and on the 30th day paypal then review the case by a specialist.
Numerous calls to Paypal to get it sorted and still nothing.
Paypal are saying the reversal back to me on the 9th was an admin error and should not have taken place becasue i didnt provide them with proof of delivery (DHL did not have the manifest avaialable at the time) but i did provide them with a copy of me and the buyers 35 email conversation where he states in cear black and white that it was an error on his part and the chargeback was done in error.
Fast forward to today - 4 months down the line.
The buyer still has my money and my xbox and my Paypal balance is -£16.
Paypal are saying that as soon as the chargeback is made then the money is returned straight back to the claimant immediately and the money is in the buyers credit card account.
The buyer is saying that there is no record on his statements that shows the money as going back in and he has a record on his October statement which shows that Payment was made back to me (which presumably is the 9th Oct)
He is however unwilling to provide me with evidence of this though by sending me a copy of the statement (with everything else blacked out of course)
He did say that his old credit card account was closed down and a new 1 opened when the card was reported as cloned - has the money been sent back to the now redundant non existing account?
Paypal say they dont have it and are fighting Clydesdale on my behlaf (what they are doing baffles me)
Clydesdale are telling the buyer that there is no waqy possible the money will have been put back into his account.
Ive told him that this has been dragging on for 4 months now and if not sorted by the 75th Paypal day then id be passing the case over to the police as he is being unco-operative and unhelpful, now he said that that was a threat and will no longer answer any emails/calls from me.
Im going around in circles Paypal blame Clydesdale, Clydesdale blame Paypal, the buyer blames me, i blame the buyer.
Fact is is im still an xbox and £71 missing!
Where do i stand please?
What exactly happens when a chargeback claim is made?
What can i do next to rectify this problem?
I appreciate anybodies help as this is really getting to me now.
Kind Regards
0
Comments
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Had something similar happen to me. problem with Paypal is that they are not very helpful at all.
Have you tried escalating through paypal's complaints process? Was the purchase covered under buyer/seller protection?0 -
Had something similar happen to me. problem with Paypal is that they are not very helpful at all.
Have you tried escalating through paypal's complaints process? Was the purchase covered under buyer/seller protection?
I havnt escalted no as they are basically saying that the money is with Clydesdale and are willing to help no further apart to "fight on my behalf" which to me means do F.A!!!
The purchase said it was elegible for the buyer/seller protection it was sent to a verified address - however the paypal rep said that it is now not covered because during the initial 30 day case i did not provide proof of delivery.
This is the email i recieved from the Paypal rep i was on the phone to as i asked her to put what she had told me in writing
Dear Mr Thompson,
Thank you for contacting PayPal, my name is Marie and I am more than happy to assist you today.
Mr. Thompson, the case ID: PP-***-***-** was opened on 15th September. The buyer opened a chargeback case with the card issuer and he/she already received the funds for it.
As such, the fund that was credited on the account on 9th October is an error and was corrected on 15th October.
Seller Protection on eBay
PayPal Seller Protection protects eligible eBay sellers from claims, chargeback’s and reversals. There is no coverage limit meaning you can post to buyer addresses in any of the 190 countries where PayPal is accepted.
To be eligible for Seller Protection, you must comply with the full terms and conditions listed in the policy.
PayPal always encourages good selling practices to help protect against potential fraudulent claims, or claims of “Items Not Received” (INR) or “Significantly Not As Described” (SNAD). Below are some of the key rules that you should follow. For full information, go to the Seller Protection policy.
Key rules of Seller Protection on eBay
• Ensure that the item is “Eligible” for Seller Protection, as displayed in your ‘Transaction Details’. Your ‘Transaction Details’ are in your PayPal email receipt. You can also find your ‘Transaction Details’ by logging in to your PayPal account and clicking on ‘Details’ next to the relevant transaction • Retain proof of delivery that can be tracked online, such as Royal Mail’s Recorded Delivery. If you hand-deliver an item or provide delivery in a way that we cannot track online, your transaction will not qualify.
This includes items posted with first class postage • Post to the address provided in the "Details" link in your account history • For items with a value of £150 or more, you need to provide proof of signature from the recipient if the buyer claims that the item did not arrive • Post the item within seven days of receiving payment • Only accept payments in full from a single PayPal account • Please respond to all PayPal enquiries within the deadlines as disputes need to be resolved within a specific timeframe
To learn the specific terms and conditions of PayPal Seller Protection, please refer to our User Agreement by clicking on the 'Legal Agreements'
link (located at the bottom of any PayPal webpage), and then clicking on ‘User Agreement’.
I appreciate the opportunity to assist you. We are committed to making your experiences at PayPal pleasant and rewarding.
Sincerely,
Marie
Resolution Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Copyright © 1999-2009 PayPal. All rights reserved.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A.
Soci!t! en Commandite par Actions
Registered Office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg RCS Luxembourg B 118 3490 -
Is it possible to get proof of signature? sorry if this is a stupid question?0
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Is it possible to get proof of signature? sorry if this is a stupid question?
I cannot get a copy of the digital signature as DHL do not have that any longer as it was so long ago apparently.
However i do have DHL tracking information that shows the item delivered and signed for by the surmane of the buyer!0 -
Your woes are more so with PAY Pal. Pay Pal should of supplied the buyers bank a 2nd presentment on the chargeback request.
This is basically a rejection claim to the chargeback, if Pay Pal failed to do that then the whole chargeback process has gone through automated and that buyer of yours had had the money back. It's just goodwill now that he will give you the money back as he will have been re credited for that amount.
Pay Pal only would have had a certain number of days to raise a 2nd presentment.
Cases like this put me off using Pay Pal, it's not all as safe as they like you to believe.0 -
Your woes are more so with PAY Pal. Pay Pal should of supplied the buyers bank a 2nd presentment on the chargeback request.
This is basically a rejection claim to the chargeback, if Pay Pal failed to do that then the whole chargeback process has gone through automated and that buyer of yours had had the money back. It's just goodwill now that he will give you the money back as he will have been re credited for that amount.
Pay Pal only would have had a certain number of days to raise a 2nd presentment.
Cases like this put me off using Pay Pal, it's not all as safe as they like you to believe.
Well paypal did say that are disputing on behlaf and whn i questioned what that meant they said they had sent a report off to Clydesdale fighting my corner (verified address etc etc)
Thing is is you cant speak to anybody at paypal that will give you an honest answer or any kind of help at all!0 -
Well paypal did say that are disputing on behlaf and whn i questioned what that meant they said they had sent a report off to Clydesdale fighting my corner (verified address etc etc)
Thing is is you cant speak to anybody at paypal that will give you an honest answer or any kind of help at all!
Sorry but after this length of time and with him no longer being co-operative, I would sue him. Give him 14 days to get a payment to you in cleared funds, if not bang a Small Claims against him. Submit all the evidence with the claim and let a judge decide on the evidence before him. It is not your fault that Paypal, Clydesdale and your buyer are playing games. I've had similar with Paypal myself.Let them all know you mean business. Put it clearly in your claim that you intend to pursue costs also - for summons etc.
StebizAsk me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies0 -
tell the buyer that if you dont get your money within a few days you are taking him to court, however call dhl they will still have logs of it0
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Sorry but after this length of time and with him no longer being co-operative, I would sue him. Give him 14 days to get a payment to you in cleared funds, if not bang a Small Claims against him. Submit all the evidence with the claim and let a judge decide on the evidence before him. It is not your fault that Paypal, Clydesdale and your buyer are playing games. I've had similar with Paypal myself.Let them all know you mean business. Put it clearly in your claim that you intend to pursue costs also - for summons etc.
Stebiz
I Agree,
The buyer will know that s/he has the money back and they could always pay you again via post. (not ideal but there is no stopping them doing that).
Put them on notice of legal action, get your small claims forms ready and send them off (or apply online) at the end of the 14 days.These are my thoughts and no one else's, so like any public forum advice - check it out before entering into contracts or spending your hard earned cash!
I don't know everything, however I do try to point people in the right direction but at the end of the day you can only ever help yourself!0 -
Thanks for all of your comments guys.
As per Clark80 suggestion in post 2 of this thread i did escalate it to the paypal complaints dept yesterday afternoon at 4.30pm stating that they had let me down and they allowed this mess to happen by not acting on the information i had given them and after allowing the chargeback to go back to CD after the 30 day paypal investigaation and not pursuing Clydesdale for the money knowing full well that it was a false chargeback claim.
Low and behold i recieved an email at 3am this morning saying they had contacted Clydesdale and the case has been awarded in my favour - checked my paypal balance and the money is back in!
Happy ending finally but a sorry state of affairs when you have to fight tooth and nail for 4 months for £71 of your own money!
Wonder if it would have taken 4 months for debt collectors to be on my doorstep if i owed Paypal £71.
Id say more like 4 hours!0
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