Credit Agreement Wording Help!

JamieT1977

Gareth19 wrote: »

I have found the original letter I wrote to terminate back in 2002 stored on my father's computer. However I am not sure how much weight this would hold in court as in todays age of computers they can say I could have just typed it up now. I don't see how they can say I voluntarily surrendered when that option wasn;t even on the CCA therefore I'd never heard of it. A nice day out in court coming up I feel

There is your proof then, when you saved it to his computer the date created and modified is recorded. Right click on the file, go to properties and it will give you the dates there. :j

Gareth19

JamieT1977 wrote: »

There is your proof then, when you saved it to his computer the date created and modified is recorded. Right click on the file, go to properties and it will give you the dates there. :j

I just sent a SAR yesterday so hopefully I'll get all the info and I can find out why they think it was a surrender as opposed to a termination. This should be interesting as apparantly neither side is required to keep details more than 6 years ago so watch this space. Thanks for all the help so far!

JamieT1977

keep us posted

DarkConvict

Ah ha, so you have the letter you sent.

That is good news, think about it even if you send a recorded letter 8 years ago, no one knows what was on it, just a letter was delivered. If you have your letter that should prove useful.

The created/Modified dates might be wrong if you have backed it up from PC to PC like me, about every year it changes, plus the date can probably by changed by using 3rd party software anyway.

Gareth19

Just an update - looking for any advice on the next course of action. I have received the SAR and have read through everything. In a nutshell they are saying it was a voluntary surrender (which they say means I'm liable for the total amount) whereas I know it was a voluntary termination (meaning I'm liable for half the total amount). I had never even heard of voluntary surrender until a few weeks ago when they came up with it as it was not mentioned as an option on the CCA which is why I know I asked for voluntary termination as that was on the CCA. Basically they have no proof it was a voluntary surrender as they are claiming as they say they do not have the documents to prove this from the original creditor. I do not have any proof it was a voluntary termination so where do we go from here? It seems one word against another with nobody having any proof. Any ideas anyone? How would a court view this?

GeorgeUK

I would ask nationaldebtline about this.
I would have thought that if it was a voluntary surrender as they claim, they would have been required to fill in some kind of form to get your signature.

DVardysShadow

Gareth19 wrote: »

Just an update - looking for any advice on the next course of action. I have received the SAR and have read through everything. In a nutshell they are saying it was a voluntary surrender (which they say means I'm liable for the total amount) whereas I know it was a voluntary termination (meaning I'm liable for half the total amount). I had never even heard of voluntary surrender until a few weeks ago when they came up with it as it was not mentioned as an option on the CCA which is why I know I asked for voluntary termination as that was on the CCA. Basically they have no proof it was a voluntary surrender as they are claiming as they say they do not have the documents to prove this from the original creditor. I do not have any proof it was a voluntary termination so where do we go from here? It seems one word against another with nobody having any proof. Any ideas anyone? How would a court view this?

Several lines of logic here.

• It was not a repo, unless they can show it was a repo, then it must have been a voluntary termination
• Presumably the agreement defines voluntary termination to some extent in terms of action - did you do what is defined as voluntary termination

In your position I would point this out to them and accuse them in writing of

1. Using false invention to attempt to defraud you [I would be as blunt as that - but I would think it through to be sure it was the case]
2. Wasting your time.

You might want to think this through a bit. I think oft guidelines are probably being breached here and I am sure DarkConvict will be along to give the facts in due course.

Personally, I do think that what they are doing is fraudulent - in which case, I would stand my ground and tell them that no further correspondence will be entered into.

Gareth19

Thanks for the info. They agree that it was definitely not a repo but they keep on about this voluntary surrender thing but they have no proof. My arguement is that that option isn't even listed on the CCA but repo and voluntary termination is so how would I ask for something that wasn't even on there and I'd never heard of? I've done abit of research on the net and it would appear this is fairly common whereby firms try saying it a surrender rather than a termination as then you have to pay the total amount. This is quite clearly going to court as nobody is backing down and nobody has any evidence of what it was so I really don't know how a court would view this situation. I am hoping to cover everything before I take this further as I don't want them to bring something up which I hadn't considered. Still open to any advice, opinions or suggestions....

GeorgeUK

Can't offer any advice on the legal stuff or arguments, but it might be worth posting on the consumeractiongroup's legal board to see what they say or if they've come across this before.

Gareth19

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Can't offer any advice on the legal stuff or arguments, but it might be worth posting on the consumeractiongroup's legal board to see what they say or if they've come across this before.

Have done as you suggested. I have managed to trace the letter from 2002 when I terminated the agreement, it was on my father's pc. I have sent a letter to Shoosmiths with a copy of the termination letter and I have told them as they can offer no proof it was a surrender then I will be making no more payments and if they want to pursue the matter I'll see them all in court. Just hope I won't live to regret this now!