FRUGAL LIVING CHALLENGE 2010, part 1. (Living on £4,000 a year)

cw18

It's possible to have a house worth £200k, and have help with the mortage and all CT covered - so the value of the house (as long as it's your only property and you live in it) almost certainly isn't taken into consideration.

rozeepozee

Cheryl, I felt sad to read your posts and am sorry if you're feeling lonely or isolated. I experience you as generous spirited and resourceful and, like PPs, feel certain you would have so much to offer to a relationship. Although our's is a "virtual friendship" I'm delighted to "know" you. I'm sure it gets harder to meet people as you get older (now I've turned 40, it's one of my big reservations about moving to a different, less urban area: how I would begin to rebuild my community network). I'm sure you've thought through all the options of how to meet new people, so I won't attempt to offer any solutions (though there have been some good ones already). I hope you start to feel better soon.

Congraulations to, was it Twinkle?on your new baby. I've just read through all the recent posts (thank goodness they're slowing down now, I can almost manage them!) but I can't remember what it was I wanted to say to some other posters (pregnancy brain!)

Had a frugal NSD potting seeds. We now have seedlings potted on in the form of aubergines, coriander, parsley, lettuce.. basically a variety of foodstuffs that are expensive to buy at the supermarkets. I also put some fresh seeds in seed trays. At the moment, they're on my kitchen windowsill and in the conservatory/greenhouse. I'm hoping to be able to do some swaps with my MIL at some stage - she has tomotoes, chillis and suchlike (and a wonderful allotment that backs off her garden that makes me green with envy)

On the issue of poverty - I don't really consider it to be as straightforward as a financial thing - is anyone really "poverty stricken" in a financial sense in this country? There's certainly very few who have experienced the sort of poverty that my grandmother or mother experienced in the early to mid part of the last century. No one has to go hungry or shoeless anymore, do they? I've come to think of real poverty as poverty of opportunity and/or aspiration which leads to forms of exculsion from society that others take for granted. For example, I come from a very poor background but with parents who were incredibly frugal and who, despite having had no education themselves, worked very hard to improve my educational/career chances - I was the first to go to university and gain a professional qualification, then a Masters, eventually becoming a solicitor and being significantly "better off" than my parents. (In turn, I aspire for my children to do "better" than I did, perhaps going to university abroad or experiencing internships that will further their career choices - plus hopefully offering the wisdom that my parents were not aware of - that money and career isn't everything and there is more to life than just an education and the status of a professional career). Other people in my childhood community may well have had more money than my parents in terms of either being in receipt of more benefits or a greater disposable income but didn't have these aspirations so have kind of "stood still" for themselves and their offspring. Then the poverty of opportunity is where people do have the drive, resources or motivation to improve themselves but their financial resources limit their ability to do so. It strikes me that pensioners and singletons on low incomes can fall into this category in this country as they don't seem to enjoy the sort of benefits that those with children do (CTC and the like which can make a huge difference to those on a low budget). It doesn't seem particularly fair to me but I haven't a clue what the solution would be and I think I may have waffled enough. (Maybe a solution would be to tax people like Lord Ashcroft on their full income and not raise vat on food... I digress to the political... definately time to stop )

NualaBuala

Fantastic post Rozeepozee :T

ceridwen

BigMummaF wrote: »

Just seen THIS :eek: Oh why do things have to get so complicated; talk about the Rich getting Richer while the Poor look on

...and I remember way back when...when we were told that the whole idea of VAT was that it was imposed on "luxury" goods only (errr...carefully skating over a certain feminine necessity as well.......:cool:). It then went onto fuel bills - and I thought "When did fuel apparently become a luxury?". For them now to be considering imposing it on food as well.....:eek:. Thats a very odd definition indeed of a "luxury" item..:cool:

Maybe the article has got a bit "backwards on" and they are only talking about putting it on all ready-prepared foods - but not on actual unprepared food items IYSWIM? (ie thinking in terms of discouraging unhealthy eating - but provided one cooks from scratch then...no VAT still....??)

ceridwen

cw18 wrote: »

:eek: indeed :eek:

One more reason I need to get my garden turned into an allotment - and possibly consider a LOT more vegetarian dishes on the menu (once DS2 moves out, as he's one of those that hasn't had a meal if it didn't include meat!)

:think: ah....think that might give a further clue as to Government thinking on this. They (well - some of them......) are aware that the World/this country are heading towards food shortages over the next few years and I gather its better utilisation of land to use it for producing vegetarian diets. Governments DO seem to spend a lot of time/effort on working out ways to feed a lot more extra mouths that havent been born yet.....and very little effort on first stabilising - then cutting - the population (ie by preventing extra mouths being born)...:mad:...

ceridwen

[QUOTE=Frugaldom;3061185

I read the reports about the alleged Whitehall discussions about imposing VAT on food but I don't think there's need for panic yet. Considering that the most of what I buy now is cheaper than it was in 1998 when I first started grocery challenges, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They've tried to cut down on waste by introducing various bin schemes, recycling, making it legal to buy past 'best before' dates, there are places like the BBC giving away vegetable seeds to encourage home growing and there's already VAT on certain foods, so it'll come as no surprise to me if they eventually add it on to all foodstuffs. As someone already said, they'll do whatever 'they' want to do regardless of what we think about it. It just makes owning my own home seem more necessary than ever, just in case the time comes when I can't afford rent and there's no social security system left to pick up the pieces. NOT looking forward to the next budget, as I'm sure it'll be one of the worst yet for frugalites.

I guess the big picture is that, on a global scale, this planet cannot sustain all current lifeforms indefinitely, so it's up to us, as intelligent human beings, to do our bit for the greater good.[/QUOTE]

I agree on the food prices actually - I have the Benefit Cookbook - Bernadette Lawrence I think? from a couple of decades ago. She gives the prices of ingredients in her recipes - and I recall reading through it a year or so ago and thinking "But the prices are the same now - and its a couple of decades later....".

I certainly agree with your last paragraph - only corollary I would add being that this planet cannot sustain all current lifeforms for very much longer at all if humans carry on having too many children for much longer. (Inserts "get down on knees praying smilie" - please..please...medics...get that Male Pill out there on the streets FAST.....FAST.....FAST...I suspect that most men havent made "active" decisions to be a parent and that this might help bring down the birthrate a lot once they have to agree to it before a child is conceived:D). I think a lot of British people maybe dont really realize how fast our population is still growing - as they live in the depths of the country or the heart of a huge city and so, either way, dont watch the evidence of this growing population on a regular basis as those of us in some parts of the country do - because we are regularly witnessing countryside being built on/yet more cars/countryside being built on/yet more cars and are longing to just stand there and yell "STOP - RIGHT HERE - RIGHT NOW - NO MORE".

lynzpower

ceridwen wrote: »

:think: ah....think that might give a further clue as to Government thinking on this. They (well - some of them......) are aware that the World/this country are heading towards food shortages over the next few years and I gather its better utilisation of land to use it for producing vegetarian diets. Governments DO seem to spend a lot of time/effort on working out ways to feed a lot more extra mouths that havent been born yet.....and very little effort on first stabilising - then cutting - the population (ie by preventing extra mouths being born)...:mad:...

Agree with this.

Taxation isnt just a way of raising cash, its a way of deterring bad-behaviour and controlling the populace. I guess many people would drive more if petrol were cheaper? Drink more? Smoke more? Have the heating on more- Of course they would, so its a balancing act, so I think an increase in already vatted foods makes sense to me :cool: The problem is that would probably raise other vatted items such as fuel so not a good thing.

Maybe if bad food were more expensive more people would realise that making your own food is the only true option and more people actually cook. More people would GYO =less food miles= less co2=less burden of heavy taxes from the EU when uk gets fined for not doing enough to reduce co2.

Another plug for this interesting site if you have 10 mins its worth a browse.
http://www.capitalgrowth.org/
:)

ceridwen

Thanks Lynzpower - will have a look at that site.

I understand where you are coming from with the points you made. There was a time when I used to wonder what the phrase "social engineering" meant.....and ever since I've been finding out bit by bit...

EDIT: Just clicked on it - thinking "sounds a bit familiar"....it would be...I've put stuff about that on my MSE "homepage" somewheres I believe......I've certainly got a load of links along those lines on there.

thriftylass

ceridwen wrote: »

I certainly agree with your last paragraph - only corollary I would add being that this planet cannot sustain all current lifeforms for very much longer at all if humans carry on having too many children for much longer. (Inserts "get down on knees praying smilie" - please..please...medics...get that Male Pill out there on the streets FAST.....FAST.....FAST...I suspect that most men havent made "active" decisions to be a parent and that this might help bring down the birthrate a lot once they have to agree to it before a child is conceived:D). I think a lot of British people maybe dont really realize how fast our population is still growing - as they live in the depths of the country or the heart of a huge city and so, either way, dont watch the evidence of this growing population on a regular basis as those of us in some parts of the country do - because we are regularly witnessing countryside being built on/yet more cars/countryside being built on/yet more cars and are longing to just stand there and yell "STOP - RIGHT HERE - RIGHT NOW - NO MORE".

I don't think the birth rate in Britain is the actual problem. Overall in the world, yes I agree. The birth rate in the UK is less than 2, so just sustaining numbers. People living longer and moving here ( guilty myself) are worse.

rictus123

Evening everyone hows it going? Not a very frugal weekend, a night out last night/out today(car hunting) and also filling up with desiel means yesterday and today were my first spend days! £26.02 on desiel and about £35 on my night out last night. The rest comes from food today bought in town and a couple of papers and lottery tickets. Our numbers came up on the euro millions so my work syndicate won........£6 lol £1.20 each so this weeks ticket will only cost 80p! Had a really nice weekend with my gf, staying in next weekend together to save our hard earned! Almost a third of the way through March already, im thinking roll on my 3 weeks trades holiday in July and then going back to work after that and having an extra £100 a week + in my pay! Last year of my apprenticeship after the summer, then onto big money! Excited!