New Year, NHS rationing, should drunks be charged for admissions?

Emy1501

Afriend wrote: »

I assume you've never heard of a booze cruise!?

How many people though are getting admitted to AE after a night drinking at home? I suspect its few compared to those on a night out on the town.

Emy1501

misskool wrote: »

Why is the easiest way to increase taxes for the general public? Increase drink prices for everyone because binge drinking to the point of being admitted to a&e belong to the select few.

As for being drunk, slipping over and breaking your leg, yes that would be an accident. I'm not one to decide how drunk people should be before there be a charge.

Yes, a pair of parents have been charged for wasting police time to search for their child that wasn't lost (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8427548.stm)

Perhaps a traffic light/warning system should exist. But there should be some element of personal responsibility, why is society now entirely happy for the blame to lie with anyone bar themselves?

Because if the suggestion goes through anyone who goes out has a few drinks has an accident and gets admitted to AE will be classed as a drunk and in likelyhood be charged £500+. As you say how are you going to police it? How drunk is too drunk? How will you enforce the penalty? Most people will be between 18-24 many dont work or are students who will not be able to pay or will be finded a few pound a week which will cost more to collect.

Last time I went to Paris a drink in a club was about £10 a bottle not too many drunks there. In Sweden you could only buy drink at government shops and in the clubs too it was pretty expensive.

As for the story you pasted it its not similar. I am talking about the 13 year old who had drunk 4 cans of cider and was found in a river.

sjaypink

Emy1501 wrote: »

How many people though are getting admitted to AE after a night drinking at home? I suspect its few compared to those on a night out on the town.

Dunno I was close to going to Minor Injuries on the 30th :o:o

I think if you are drinking huge amounts you will get injuries from anything and anywhere :cool:

Emy1501

Afriend wrote: »

You miss the point. Most who like a beverage or two drink at home before going out.

Do you know how expensive alcohol is? £3 a pint in Surrey.

I live in Surrey so I know. When I used to go our regularly bars used to be half price between 8 and ten. Even now bars I know offer 2 for 1 on wine etc. Most I know may have a few before they go out but they are nowhere near wrecked or anything like that. Most of the drink is bought in the bars or clubs.

misskool

Emy1501 wrote: »

Because if the suggestion goes through anyone who goes out has a few drinks has an accident and gets admitted to AE will be classed as a drunk and in likelyhood be charged £500+. As you say how are you going to police it? How drunk is too drunk? How will you enforce the penalty? Most people will be between 18-24 many dont work or are students who will not be able to pay or will be finded a few pound a week which will cost more to collect.

Last time I went to Paris a drink in a club was about £10 a bottle not too many drunks there. In Sweden you could only buy drink at government shops and in the clubs too it was pretty expensive.

As for the story you pasted it its not similar. I am talking about the 13 year old who had drunk 4 cans of cider and was found in a river.

If they are in hospital, they can have their blood alcohol level tested. There will be a limit set, perhaps a few times above the legal driving limit. The penalty can be enforced via the courts. If they are between 18-24 and don't work, how can they find enough money to drink to oblivion at pubs?

You asked if parents have been fined for searches and I answered yes. I did not know the story you referred to (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238330/Boy-13-dead-river-drunk-cans-cider-going-missing.html). If he hadn't died, then yes, perhaps he should have been fined for drinking to excess. People need to realise that alcohol is dangerous.

why is there such an obsession to drink to get drunk in this country?

Emy1501

misskool wrote: »

If they are in hospital, they can have their blood alcohol level tested. There will be a limit set, perhaps a few times above the legal driving limit. The penalty can be enforced via the courts. If they are between 18-24 and don't work, how can they find enough money to drink to oblivion at pubs?

You asked if parents have been fined for searches and I answered yes. I did not know the story you referred to (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238330/Boy-13-dead-river-drunk-cans-cider-going-missing.html). If he hadn't died, then yes, perhaps he should have been fined for drinking to excess. People need to realise that alcohol is dangerous.

why is there such an obsession to drink to get drunk in this country?

You have to set a limit that eveyone understands Is it 3 pints, 4 pints what? A few times above drink drive limit i'd be surprised if it was that high. as for 18-24 year olds, student loan, dole money etc Students are always !!!!ed etc. Courts enforcing orders especially to those who do not have alot of money don't make me laugh, have you ever tried? The court is likely to order someone to pay £5 a week who afer a couple of months will stop paying they then won't even bother looking for them after that.

Of course alcohol is dangerous and people should not drink so much as for the obsession its the culture isn't it? Brits on the !!!! and all that? Government does not seem to do anything ever about it though.

Maybe its me but the idea is not very well thought out. I suspect a night or 2 in a cell will make many think twice before they consider getting so drunk again.

Emy1501

Afriend wrote: »

Ireland - last time I was there it was 8 euros for a guiness. Lots of locals obviously drunk. The real drinkers will always stock up where the drug is the cheapest. Whether it be supermarket, france of a homebrew.

Why limit it to alcohol(?), I'm sure there's plenty illegal drugs which cause the nhs problems.

Illegal drugs are illegal no problems with that you want to do something illegal then you deal with the problems. Don't know about Ireland not been there. Can only go on the european countries I have been to where the problem does not seem to be anywhere near as bad as it is here.

misskool

Emy1501 wrote: »

You have to set a limit that eveyone understands Is it 3 pints, 4 pints what? A few times above drink drive limit i'd be surprised if it was that high. as for 18-24 year olds, student loan, dole money etc Students are always !!!!ed etc. Courts enforcing orders especially to those who do not have alot of money don't make me laugh, have you ever tried? The court is likely to order someone to pay £5 a week who afer a couple of months will stop paying they then won't even bother looking for them after that.

Of course alcohol is dangerous and people should not drink so much as for the obsession its the culture isn't it? Brits on the !!!! and all that? Government does not seem to do anything ever about it though.

Maybe its me but the idea is not very well thought out. I suspect a night or 2 in a cell will make many think twice before they consider getting so drunk again.

I didn't say it was the entire idea. It was brought up and I merely agreed with the principle of personal responsibility, ie the person who has been admitted to hospital due to alcohol would pay for their care.

I haven't sat here and worked it all out.

If you think that perhaps a night or two in the cells will teach them then maybe you should air that idea. I don't see how a night in the cells will teach them not to drink to excess so they need to be hospitalised again.

Anyways, why is it in your estimation that only 18-24 year olds get drunk to excess and can't afford to pay? If they have money to go out drinking, they have enough money to pay for the damages they cause to themselves because of the drink. That will teach them how to responsible for their actions, won't it.

I'm going to bow out now because I don't think we will see eye to eye on this point.

Emy1501

misskool wrote: »

I didn't say it was the entire idea. It was brought up and I merely agreed with the principle of personal responsibility, ie the person who has been admitted to hospital due to alcohol would pay for their care.

I haven't sat here and worked it all out.

If you think that perhaps a night or two in the cells will teach them then maybe you should air that idea. I don't see how a night in the cells will teach them not to drink to excess so they need to be hospitalised again.

Anyways, why is it in your estimation that only 18-24 year olds get drunk to excess and can't afford to pay? If they have money to go out drinking, they have enough money to pay for the damages they cause to themselves because of the drink. That will teach them how to responsible for their actions, won't it.

I'm going to bow out now because I don't think we will see eye to eye on this point.

My local town used to have a blow up tent in the town centre on a weekend to deal with the minor injuries from people pouring out of the clubs etc. I suspect most of the people who end up in AE after a night oout due to drink fit in the 18-24 maybe 30 age range. I maybe wrong but I suspect you will struggle to get £530 out of them. I work in an industry where we used to try and get money out of uninsured drivers many who fit into the above age range. It was a waste of time many did not have any money and even you got a judgement against them it was normally at £5 a week which never got paid. I personally just don't see the fine being paid myself.

Also I suspect what will happen is someone will get injured will not go to AE because of the potential fine. They will go home sober up and come back the next day etc when they have sobered up and their injury probably worse which will cost more money.

I suspect those which will mainly pay will be those who were mentioned by StevieJ the type who probably don't go out much. They then go out one night get drunk hurt themselves end up with the fine and pay it. The problem is these people rarely cause a problem and are not really type that should be targeted. We need to get away from the culture of its cool to get drunk until you cant remember anything. To me the idea is nothing more than a money grabbing excerise when I suspect more tax is generated from alcohol sales than the NHS spend on tackling injuries and illnesses caused by it.

I personally agree with the OP. If its for serial offenders fair enough. I would also like to see some sort of community service maybe helping addicts etc which would be more benefical than a fine and give the person an insight into how they could end up.

What I don't want to see is the poor one off drunk being fined £500 for a simple accident which may or may not have happened even if they were not drunk

NowWhat_2

misskool wrote: »

If they are in hospital, they can have their blood alcohol level tested. There will be a limit set, perhaps a few times above the legal driving limit. The penalty can be enforced via the courts. If they are between 18-24 and don't work, how can they find enough money to drink to oblivion at pubs?

You asked if parents have been fined for searches and I answered yes. I did not know the story you referred to (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238330/Boy-13-dead-river-drunk-cans-cider-going-missing.html). If he hadn't died, then yes, perhaps he should have been fined for drinking to excess. People need to realise that alcohol is dangerous.

why is there such an obsession to drink to get drunk in this country?

Agree with you.

Also - I have wondered what on earth is supposed to be the point of drinking deliberately to get drunk. It's nice to have a couple of drinks of wine with a meal and understandable to have a drink or two to "wind down" from a day at work (I do that myself sometimes). Drinking to get drunk though is a really odd idea - and very wasteful of money and risky to health.

As regards possible difficulties in getting people to pay up - then an "attachment of earnings" order to be made on whatever-source-they-get-their-income-from (including if its a student loan or benefit income) should help sort that little excuse out.