Are most people in debt to there eye balls?

Paulgonnabedebtfree

computershack wrote: »

I'm 38 and should be mortgage free before I'm 45 which is the target. The realisation came just over a decade ago - I think it was 1997 to put a year to it - although that was more being forced into remembering the lessons I'd learned as a child and forgotten when I'd left home. Had a crap upbringing (think parents only being able to afford to feed us egg and chips and all living in one room in winter as we could only afford to heat that much - nowadays Social Services would put you in care) and went a bit silly when I hit adulthood. Then one year the wife lost her job and my income dropped off 50%, although as I was working for an agency it appeared there was more coming in than there was. Looked at my P60 that year and went "Oh Crap". Basically we had a 70% drop in one year. Well fortunately I'd not dug myself that much of a hole that I couldn't get out of it and poverty in childhood had been a great educator on what could be achieved with very little - all my bikes and my first TV were skip raid jobs I'd brought back to life myself -the TV I repaired (OK, was only the internal fuse) at the age of 13 and long before the internet existed.

I actually thanked my parents this Xmas for the crap upbringing. Genuinely thanked them and I meant it. Sure it was real bad at the time but I now understand the lessons that were there to be learned which are far harder to be taught without living through it. I think everyone needs a stint of absolute abject poverty to focus the mind on what you actually need and, just as importantly, what you're actually capable of and how to learn to do things for yourself. There's just too much waste through laziness and lack of self belief/motivation. Too many of us think "I can't possibly do this because people who do this as a living have spent years training and taking exams" which is why, for example, people pay £50 an hour for a guy to come out, turn the water off at the stopcock, undo a screw and a little nut and replace the 2p washer in the tap - something which was "common knowledge" that people did for themselves just a few decades ago. Sadly, I think its only going to get worse as the govt is hell bent on everything having a qualification, thus exacerbating the "can't possibly do it myself" mindset.

I'm really enjoying your posts CS.
Sounds like something I often tell myself
"We are not responsible for the hand we are dealt.
We are responsible for the way we play it."

System

computershack wrote: »

I'm 38 and should be mortgage free before I'm 45 which is the target. The realisation came just over a decade ago - I think it was 1997 to put a year to it - although that was more being forced into remembering the lessons I'd learned as a child and forgotten when I'd left home. Had a crap upbringing (think parents only being able to afford to feed us egg and chips and all living in one room in winter as we could only afford to heat that much - nowadays Social Services would put you in care) and went a bit silly when I hit adulthood. Then one year the wife lost her job and my income dropped off 50%, although as I was working for an agency it appeared there was more coming in than there was. Looked at my P60 that year and went "Oh Crap". Basically we had a 70% drop in one year. Well fortunately I'd not dug myself that much of a hole that I couldn't get out of it and poverty in childhood had been a great educator on what could be achieved with very little - all my bikes and my first TV were skip raid jobs I'd brought back to life myself -the TV I repaired (OK, was only the internal fuse) at the age of 13 and long before the internet existed.

I actually thanked my parents this Xmas for the crap upbringing. Genuinely thanked them and I meant it. Sure it was real bad at the time but I now understand the lessons that were there to be learned which are far harder to be taught without living through it. I think everyone needs a stint of absolute abject poverty to focus the mind on what you actually need and, just as importantly, what you're actually capable of and how to learn to do things for yourself. There's just too much waste through laziness and lack of self belief/motivation. Too many of us think "I can't possibly do this because people who do this as a living have spent years training and taking exams" which is why, for example, people pay £50 an hour for a guy to come out, turn the water off at the stopcock, undo a screw and a little nut and replace the 2p washer in the tap - something which was "common knowledge" that people did for themselves just a few decades ago. Sadly, I think its only going to get worse as the govt is hell bent on everything having a qualification, thus exacerbating the "can't possibly do it myself" mindset.

Thats is another thing, I am like that, if something goes wrong around the house 9/10 I can fix I myself, for the simple reason I couldn't afford to pay anyone or more I couldn't justify paying someone a silly amount, But I have often heard colleagues at work talk about someone coming out to fix something for them, again where does the money come from? recently before xmas I listened to one of them paying over £100 for some guy to put a freeview aerial up for them, we had the same scenario but I put ours up myself on a 2 story house with a fear of heights, it was a hairy experience but needs must.

computershack

And I bet you actually didn't find it that taxing either (other than the getting up there bit). In fact I suspect that once you have a go at a lot of things, you wonder what all the fuss is about.

As for the:
""We are not responsible for the hand we are dealt.
We are responsible for the way we play it.""

Yep. Many things are out of your control, such as the tax refund I've been waiting for for 10 months now. Sure you try and put everything in place to get the best results you can but someteims you have to make the best of the hand thats dealt you. My lower back is completely shot. First time it went, it ended a career. I retrained. Second time it went, it ended that career. This time I looked at what I've done in the past and the skills I had which I could still use as basically I'm not supposed to do any lifting, pulling, pushing, standing a lot or sitting a lot which kind of doesn't leave much. Being in a recession, there wasn't any jobs that fit so I created my own. I'm quite sure at some point I'll actually start making money :D but its coming along to plan, albeit a bit slower than I thought and there's been many lessons learned on the journey this path has taken me over the last 6 months.

I could quite easily sit at home, my lifestyle funded by disability benefits perfectly legitimately. Thing is, that'd be like admitting some kind of defeat, it isn't me and there's only so much Jeremy Kyle one person can watch without feeling they want to top themselves - no offence Jezza..:rotfl:

So, to the OP as I seem to have hi-jacked the thread.....

Let em get on with it. Be happy with what you've got and if you're not, its up to you to do what you can to put it into place and maximise what comes along but don't beat yourself up if it doesn't necessarily pan out.

yellowduck_2

really interesting thread, I must confess that I used to have the odd bout of envy for a colleague who was often going for weekends away with her partner, frequent foreign holidays, lots of new clothes and then she confided in me that the whole lot was funded on credit and she was really stessed about it. End of the envy from me, they had a massive amount of debt and as a lot of us have learnt, it only takes illness, relatiohship breakdown or redunancy to bring the whole fragile house of cards down. It is horrible not to be able to afford the necessities of life, for example I'm worried about the current cold weather ramping up my heating bill, but by reassessing what we truly value maybe we can be a bit happier with things.

Saab

computershack wrote: »

Warning, long post:



Oh thanks. So according to you, I'm either lying or I'm a thief?

My scenario:
Wife, 2 kids.
Total joint income including all tax credits is £20k.

We're on a 10 year mortgage (was 25 but payments were so ridiculously low - would now be £125 a month - we decided to change to a 10 year to get shut of it), own and run two cars (Mine is 4 year old Mondeo Ghia, wifes is a Mitsubishi FTO sports car), have all the latest consoles with at least 10 games for each, 3 good spec laptops, 3x flat screen tellies, internet, Sky HD. We have a family holiday abroad every year and the wife goes with the kids on one as well which we also pay for. We contribute £25 a month to each kids savings accounts as well as the pocket money they get. I have £3k in my ISA (was more but I bought a Capri and funded my new business), no idea what the wife has in hers, the joint account is never less than £500 in credit and the joint credit cards are paid off in full every month. Any big bill that comes along (just had a new uPVC front door a month ago at a cost of £610) is paid for in full in cash.

So according to you either:
A)We're up to our eyeballs in debt (yet the bank and CC balances say otherwise)
My wife is the big earner (yet she only does 20hrs a week at £8.50/hr)
C) We're doing something dodgy (which I take great offence to)

THE REALITY IS:

• We bought our house before the prices went stupid and we've stayed put. Our house is worth five times what we paid for it to give you an idea how much its risen and how cheap it was back then. 2003 was about the last time it was realistically affordable to buy a house. Once a 3x joint income mortgage wasn't sufficient, they were too expensive. I'd not entertain buying one now nor recommend someone does. It gets decorated when it needs to and a new kitchen bought when it needs to, not just because we want to change the colour. When we do buy stuff for it, we buy the best quality we can. We've got carpets that are several years old but still look extremely good because we bought decent ones. Cheap doesn't always work out cost effective in the long run.
• The cars weren't new when bought. They're serviced to the recommended schedules and all repairs done when needed, rather than being left which usually costs more. Things like RAC is paid out of Tesco Clubcard points. We make maximum use of cashback and screen scrapers so we both get insured for under £200 a year. WE WALK when going anywhere in town (its only small) unless its the weekly shop. I manage 55MPG out of mine because I can actually drive properly. I think the wife said she gets 36MPG out of hers which isn't bad for a 2L V6 sports car. Neither of us are slow drivers.
• We repair rather than replace. I've self taught myself to fix a lot of things over the years. It simply requires confidence, some decent guidance (internet is stuffed full) and the right tools. For example, the vacuum cleaner has died three times now. Completely stone cold dead. Every time without fail it has been a break in the mains cable where it enters the vacuum cleaner. So, take it to bits, out with the pliers, cut it back 6 inches, bare the wires and solder them where the originals went and its good to go again. OK, so the mains lead is now 18" shorter than it was originally but its still over 30ft long. What would you do, go buy another?
• Two consoles were bought as presents by family, the PS3 from someone who was skint, although it was far from a giveaway price. Games are bought as presents, in the sales or on Ebay usually a month or two after release when they're cheaper.
• Laptops are ex-display ones I bought at clearance auctions as are the TVs.
• Holidays abroad are paid for with Tesco Clubcard vouchers so we only really have to find spending money. That saves us £1000 a year or more just there.
• Credit card is a cashback one. It means that petrol/diesel, if we get it from a supermarket, is effectively 9p a gallon cheaper than the pump price after the cashback. All spending is done on it so we get around £20-30 a month average cashback. There's only one month in every year (no idea but its been the same month) where it doesn't get paid off in full but the cashback outweighs the interest.
• We don't run our house at 25C in winter. Its well insulated and its not lit up like Blackpool Illuminations unlike my brother who feels the need to have every room lit on a night. As a result, our energy bills combined are just over £700 a year. Boiler is still the original back boiler fitted in 1984. Sure it uses more gas than a new combi-boiler but importantly it has never broken down and the savings in gas are more than outweighed by the cost of replacement or repairs of the replacement.
• Everything that is to be replaced gets sold to partially fund its replacement. Nothing working goes in the tip.
• When it comes to Xmas, nobody in our family buys for adults other than a card. All of us have no idea !!!!!! we want anyway and pretty much have everything that could be deemed to be reasonable to buy so we don't bother. Instead, we get things for the kids in the family. As a result, they get more than they would've.

And thats it or some of it. No real secret. YET NONE OF IT IS VISIBLE TO THE OUTSIDE OBSERVER LIKE YOURSELF. How are you to know my holiday was paid for by Tesco for example? It'd be the same one you're on if you were at the same place but you'd have paid £500 or whatever so automatically assume that I did or a similar amount but I bet you'd never guess FREE as a cost.

Decide if you actually want something eg I saw a lovely Denon Home Theatre amplifier in Richer Sounds yesterday and I'd like to change the one I've got because its run out of inputs but I came home without it because I don't truly really need one yet. When you do buy be careful what you buy, where you buy from and be creative in how you pay (for example using Tesco Clubcard points or a cashback credit card or website). Don't always buy new - all those laptopsand the TVs were under 4 months old, still had all the protective plastics on and cost me half what their retail value was. Learn how things work and fix what you've got instead of paying through the nose to replace or get a trade out to do a simple job. Things like basic plumbing aren't rocket science - anyone can change a tap washer or replace a ballcock.

There's an absolute ton of other stuff the wife and I do but it means that we can make our money stretch just as far as someone who has twice the income but does little or no moneysaving at all. I go back to my brother who is the complete opposite. He and his wife earn £52k between them, over two times what we do. He bought his house just 5 years after we did but paid four times the price for a similar house due to the rises. Not an extravagent lifestyle but incredibly wasteful. All the lights on on a night time, heating up full, the food they bin is incredible. Kids have more clothes than its possible to wear - I swear some of them just don't get used and others a days use before they're thrown out for being too small. Just before Xmas he wrote his car off and needs to get another which apparently I'm going to be helping him find. Because he's done sod all money saving, he's got just £500 to get something taxed and MOT'd that can reliably do a 180 mile motorway round trip 3 times a week and finance is apparently out. I'm good but not that good...

Great post and illustrates what can be done with effort.:beer:

It is effort that is needed, that and the ability to say 'no we don't need it' not just to other family members but to yourself too.

We have never had money to burn. OH is self employed and has been all our married life (31 years) so I have always taken care from day one. Putting away tax etc and when money is coming in well, putting enough away for when it's not.

In the last two years I have followed people on this site, sought information from various parts of the forums and hammered down our outgoings considerably.

As a consquence we now have far more savings than ever before in our 31 married years. That's good because January and February are not looking great on the work front for OH, but for the first time in many years, I am not too stressed about it (although he has an offer for next week, and I am crossing everything because I really want to hang onto those savings). With that in mind I scour the highstreet and the net everytime I have to spend in order to get the very best for the very least.

It's taken me almost a year to collect all that I need to have a new kitchen (mine is 20 years old now). I have bought all the appliances apart from a washing machine because mine is still going strong *touches wood*...that will be later when needed and not now just because it's the wrong colour. Most appliances came from a kitchen supplier that opens once a month to the public and sells 'B' grade appliances for a fraction of the original cost.

I have bought all the cabinets (mostly from EBAyers) all are new some sold because people bought too many (how do you do that? Measure people!!) some from people that have bought bankrupt stock. The most I have paid is half price. The least is £15 per wall unit, all built and top quality!! I only need two more base units, and am chasing those at the moment. Then last but not least the sink (I have my eye on a couple) and we will be ready to install the whole kitchen. Total cost including floor and lighting will be £1,300...bargain.:D

It's time, effort and reality for me. I admit I enjoy chasing down bargains (I have considered offering my services for money, I seem to spend enough time doing it for other family members, maybe I should make them pay). It' is a great buzz though, finding what you want (and often better) for a fraction of what walking into a store and pointing at things costs.

Keep trying is my motto, do not accpet that something has to be a certain price, or that you can't find it elsewhere for cheaper, and be patient and willing to wait a while....booger what anyone else thinks of your old whatever, if it's still working and you can wait for a new one, then do, and don't buy anything until you have exhausted every avenue of bargain possibility.:T

System

computershack wrote: »

And I bet you actually didn't find it that taxing either (other than the getting up there bit). In fact I suspect that once you have a go at a lot of things, you wonder what all the fuss is about.

As for the:
""We are not responsible for the hand we are dealt.
We are responsible for the way we play it.""

Yep. Many things are out of your control, such as the tax refund I've been waiting for for 10 months now. Sure you try and put everything in place to get the best results you can but someteims you have to make the best of the hand thats dealt you. My lower back is completely shot. First time it went, it ended a career. I retrained. Second time it went, it ended that career. This time I looked at what I've done in the past and the skills I had which I could still use as basically I'm not supposed to do any lifting, pulling, pushing, standing a lot or sitting a lot which kind of doesn't leave much. Being in a recession, there wasn't any jobs that fit so I created my own. I'm quite sure at some point I'll actually start making money :D but its coming along to plan, albeit a bit slower than I thought and there's been many lessons learned on the journey this path has taken me over the last 6 months.

I could quite easily sit at home, my lifestyle funded by disability benefits perfectly legitimately. Thing is, that'd be like admitting some kind of defeat, it isn't me and there's only so much Jeremy Kyle one person can watch without feeling they want to top themselves - no offence Jezza..:rotfl:

So, to the OP as I seem to have hi-jacked the thread.....

Let em get on with it. Be happy with what you've got and if you're not, its up to you to do what you can to put it into place and maximise what comes along but don't beat yourself up if it doesn't necessarily pan out.

Oh I loved it, and since then I have put up more aerials and even satellite dishes.

jennihen

[
"We are not responsible for the hand we are dealt.
We are responsible for the way we play it."]

I totally agree with this!
I've been a single mum to 3 for the last 10 years. I got lumbered with the debts when my marriage broke down and have an ex who refused to pay maintenance. His contribution was a super-fantastic holiday with him every year.
I couldn't work when they were little and have been further handicapped by a chronic illness but I do now manage about 26 hrs a week which makes me £11 p/w better off.
I am debtfree and can obtain some forms of credit (contract mobile fone, vanquis credit card etc) Not brilliant but I'm getting there!!
IMO there are 2 ways of paying for stuff - either wait and save for it or get it now and pay later. For years I didn't have the choice - with no available credit my children and I had to be patient and learn to save. Now its the other way around I still wouldn't blow my £500 credit limit just for the sake of it.
My Nan's motto was 'Make do and mend' which many younger people simply don't understand.
Ironically a change in my fortune now means that 2010 will put me in debt once again as I have to borrow about 1/5 of the price of a house. Just the thought of being in debt again is giving me sleepless nights already!!!
I wish everyone on here a Happy, Prosperous and Debtfree New Year

JH

bathgatebuyer

I'm generally skint most of the time and that means I quite often get some hurful comments made by people, "You're just dull.................you never go on holiday..............why don't you get yourself some new clothes................." and so on. In reality I'm not willing to borrow to go on holiday just so I have a tale to tell to people.

Still, the money I'm not spending on holidays and things like that, I'm paying as additional contributions to my mortgage so it will be all gone by the time I'm 46. I bought my first place when I was 21 and so have always been focused about just getting my own roof over my head. Yes, some people think I'm a dullard as I rarely go abroad, but in terms of wealth, I'm probably actually quite lucky by comparison. I know these guys sometimes look down on me from their big fancy homes and stuff that they share with their partners, but everything I have in life, I've earned myself. Once that roof is over my head and completely paid off, I'll feel like the wealthiest person alive!!! Ok, so there's no designer labels or sportscars or flashy holidays, but I knew when I bought this place - when I was 25 - that it was a step in the right direction as far as life goes.

My Ex used to tell me I was boring as I didn't want to do what he wanted - live and work in Australia for a year. So, he saved and saved thousands and sold loads of things, went out to Sydney, came back to no job and now lives with his Mum and Dad aged 34. I have my own place that will be mine outright in 13 years and I'm just back from a month in Sydney staying with relatives. I've been out there 3 times since we split up and still have my home. Am I really the poorer for that?!

There's a great book called The Millionaire Next Door which covers precisely this subject - that is, it looks at people's wealth relative to their incomes. So, those who have high incomes may actually be quite low wealth because they fritter it away, while someone who appears to be quite poor by comparison can actually be much wealthier because of the way they have used their money. A recommended read!

wigglebeena

One option, if there's a clause in your work contract that says it's not permissible to discuss salaries, is that your co-workers are being given a whole **** of a lot more money than you. Happens at plenty of places. Haggle for your salary and get more, fail to do so and get a pittance.

Rob71

kingfisherblue wrote: »

Rob71, well done for gettting debt free from that amount. I can't imagine ever owing so much (except for the mortgage!), but I really admire people who acknowledge their debts and work hard to pay them off, and the amount that you have paid off is incredible.

The only time in life I would suggest being selfish - when it comes to debt! No-one else is going to look out for your own best interests like you will (not pointing the finger, just saying!) - so anyone in a painful debt position needs to take charge and sort it out for themselves, since no-one else is going to do it for you.

Simple: own up, deal with and move on... (I realise that's easier said than done, but sometimes you need to be ruthless).

I know someone earning 100K a year(:eek:) that doesn't have enough cash to put petrol in their car two weeks after payday...

nirelandguy wrote: »

Oh I loved it, and since then I have put up more aerials and even satellite dishes.

It's dead easy when you know how, isn't it?

I installed an aerial (in the loft to get around the fear of heights!) after getting quoted £150 for the cheapest installation. I've also installed motorised dishes and the like... It's very satisfying, makes you feel good about yourself, and is (potentially!) a handy sideline...

Likewise I can service the car, sort out electrics and the plumbing... but I know people who will PAY to have someone paint their house!

I know certain lady friends are better at tiling and laying laminate than I will ever be - but they'd never have bothered trying to do either of those things unless they were put in a position whereby they had to.

My attitude (and please don't take offence anyone!) is that trained chimps could do most things, and by that measure so should I! The only thing stopping people from trying to do stuff is their mindset... nothing is impossible if you've got the right attitude!

Paulgonnabedebtfree wrote: »

"We are not responsible for the hand we are dealt.
We are responsible for the way we play it."

Amen!

Wishing you all a happy and prosperous New Year! :beer::j:beer::j