Advice pse - impending unfair dismissal tribunal/slander in disclosure documents

teeandrew

I have posted on here previously about my situation (redundancy straight after maternity leave, unfair dismissal claim).

I have now received my ex companies disclosure documents for the tribunal and on the very last page is a list of "issues" compiled by the temp who took over my job. There is a list of 12 problematic issues (some slanderous) from when she took over my job (requested by the MD).

I do not see the relevance of this when I am claiming unfair dismissal from a redundancy situation........ should they even be including this? I am guessing it is there way of saying they would not take me back but can anyone tell me where I stand, especially as they are trying to discredit me with alligations which have never been put to me before now.

Ewarwoowar2

Hi Tee,

I've read your previous post about your claim.

As an employment solicitor used to dealing with claims, I would advise you to concentrate on your case, not their defence. Make sure you understand 1) what you have to prove (on balance) to win your claim and 2) how you are going to prove it (your statement, written evidence, statistical evidence, etc...).

If they have a bunch of notes about how bad you are, so what? Will it undermine any of the points you have to prove? If so, how will you refute their evidence. Can you bring in a witness to discredit the notes.

If the notes they have do not undermine any of the points you need to make, then forget about it. Referring to this type of evidence in an illogical way will make them seem petty. It could also suggest that they didn't raise concerns with you and actually dismissed you for reason of capability or conduct.

If the employer is legally represented, I would guess that they will use the notes to demonstrate one or more of the following:

1. the reason they didn't offer you suitable alternative employment (SAE) was because you were incompetent;
2. even if they had interviewed you for SAE you wouldn't have got the job because you were incompetent; or
3. even if you had been given SAE you would have been dismissed after a week/month for reason of incapability

The first would undermine your argument that the company didn't give you SAE because you are a woman/returned from maternity. They could say the real reason for not giving you the job was capability reasons rather than you being a woman/given birth.

The second and third are arguments that they could use if they lose the case. Even if the tribunal decide that you didn't get the job because you are a woman, then it wouldn't have mattered much because either even if they had given you a fair interview for the SAE you would have failed or even if they had given you the SAE you would have been sacked soon after because of your capability issues. Therefore, you might win the case but get very little compensation.

Hope this helps.

dickydonkin

It could also suggest that they didn't raise concerns with you and actually dismissed you for reason of capability or conduct.

But surely the employer cannot move the goalposts after dismissal (changing the reason for dismissal) when the affected employee would surely have been informed the original reason for dismissal was due to redundancy - not capability or conduct?

Ewarwoowar2

dpassmore wrote: »

But surely the employer cannot move the goalposts after dismissal (changing the reason for dismissal) when the affected employee would surely have been informed the original reason for dismissal was due to redundancy - not capability or conduct?

No they can't. It's a question of fact: what was the reason for the dismissal at the time the decision to dismiss was made. If they dressed up a capability dismissal as a redundancy dismissal it's likely to be unfair. Mainly because they won't have given the employee time to improve, a final warning, etc..

And don't call me Surely.

dickydonkin

Ewarwoowar2 wrote: »

No they can't. It's a question of fact: what was the reason for the dismissal at the time the decision to dismiss was made. If they dressed up a capability dismissal as a redundancy dismissal it's likely to be unfair. Mainly because they won't have given the employee time to improve, a final warning, etc..

And don't call me Surely.

Make that 'Surly' then - 0K!

roger196

Will the temp be giving evidence, in which case you can cross examine.
What are the temp's qualifications to judge your job performance.
How does temp know that the problems were created by you and not someone else.
When did the problems first arise, were they bought to your attention and on what date. Were you given verbal or written warnings and on what date.
If you are unable to challenge their defence, it stands however unfair.
I appreciate you may not want to be more specific about the problems as this is an open forum, but it is difficult to suggest questions on a vague understanding of what the problems are.

teeandrew

Thanks for all of your replies, I think I was in shock when I received the documents.

The issues on their list include not keeping personnel records, not keeping other records for business I was responsible for, petty cash discrepancies and not using the finance package correctly as I couldn’t be bothered inputting data after another member of staff accidentally deleted the master file (which happened over 2 years ago).

I have spoken to their solicitor and he said he had not checked all of the documents and has just sent me everything due to the time it took them to send the docs to him and that he probably would not use it anyway. If it does come down to them using that route my old MD has said that he can vouch for my 6+ years of excellent conduct.

As far as the sex discrimination/maternity bit it is more that they kept on the temp that is the issue, she was definitely no more competent than me as she had never used the finance package and had to rely on my instructions prepared for other staff members. She lives not far from me and they paid all of her expenses in order to work in the new office (hotel, travel, food etc)

Roger196 I was thinking exactly the same, I don’t know if she will be giving evidence – what annoys me most is that these people had never worked with me, I was on maternity leave! Also none of these problems have ever been raised with me, no verbal or written warnings either.

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for all of your replies, I think I was in shock when I received the documents.

The issues on their list include not keeping personnel records, not keeping other records for business I was responsible for, petty cash discrepancies and not using the finance package correctly as I couldn’t be bothered inputting data after another member of staff accidentally deleted the master file (which happened over 2 years ago).

I have spoken to their solicitor and he said he had not checked all of the documents and has just sent me everything due to the time it took them to send the docs to him and that he probably would not use it anyway. If it does come down to them using that route my old MD has said that he can vouch for my 6+ years of excellent conduct.

As far as the sex discrimination/maternity bit it is more that they kept on the temp that is the issue, she was definitely no more competent than me as she had never used the finance package and had to rely on my instructions prepared for other staff members. She lives not far from me and they paid all of her expenses in order to work in the new office (hotel, travel, food etc)

Roger196 I was thinking exactly the same, I don’t know if she will be giving evidence – what annoys me most is that these people had never worked with me, I was on maternity leave! Also none of these problems have ever been raised with me, no verbal or written warnings either.

Hope this makes sense.

roger196

1 not keeping personnel records,
How many entries were not made, on what dates should they have been, when were the entries subsequently made ( if not made would suggest they were not relevant). What training were you given and when. What were the results of your annual appraisal, if any.

2 not keeping other records for business I was responsible,
Does your job description specify which records you were required to keep. How many entries were not made, on what dates should they have been, when were the entries subsequently made. When were the deficiencies discovered, by whom, when were these deficiencies bought to your attention.

3 petty cash discrepancies
How much were the discrepancies, were they unders or overs, Did you have sole charge of the petty cash, could the deficiencies have occurred after the petty cash box left your possession. Who had keys to the petty cash box. When were the deficiencies discovered, by whom and on what dates. when were these deficiencies bought to your attention. Were you offered remedial training in petty cash accounts and on what dates.

4 not using the finance package correctly as I couldn’t be bothered inputting data after another member of staff accidentally deleted the master file (which happened over 2 years ago)
You can guess my questions from the above.

Hope my slightly random thoughts are some help.

magpiecottage

I may be missing something here but I always thought it was the job, not the person that is made redundant.

If so, how can a temp be doing a job that the employer says doesn't exist any more?

teeandrew

roger196 wrote: »

1 not keeping personnel records,
How many entries were not made, on what dates should they have been, when were the entries subsequently made ( if not made would suggest they were not relevant). What training were you given and when. What were the results of your annual appraisal, if any.
I kept a basic personnel file for the company, holiday record contact details etc the file was handed to the temp on my departure. I had no training and had only one appraisal in the 6+ years I was there.

2 not keeping other records for business I was responsible,
Does your job description specify which records you were required to keep. How many entries were not made, on what dates should they have been, when were the entries subsequently made. When were the deficiencies discovered, by whom, when were these deficiencies bought to your attention.
The records in question were for life assurance, pension and car insurance. All of these were kept in seperate files handed to the temp

3 petty cash discrepancies
How much were the discrepancies, were they unders or overs, Did you have sole charge of the petty cash, could the deficiencies have occurred after the petty cash box left your possession. Who had keys to the petty cash box. When were the deficiencies discovered, by whom and on what dates. when were these deficiencies bought to your attention. Were you offered remedial training in petty cash accounts and on what dates.
I had sole responsiblility for the petty cash, it was locked in the safe at all times, three other members of staff had access to the safe whilst I was on maternity leave, my failing here was not reconciling the cash whilst on leave. The apperent dificiencies were never raised with me, even though the temp did the last month end reports whilst I was still with the company, I was only alerted the other week when I read this document.

4 not using the finance package correctly as I couldn’t be bothered inputting data after another member of staff accidentally deleted the master file (which happened over 2 years ago)
You can guess my questions from the above.
After the files were deleted it was agreed with the MD that we would revert back to the manual system as too much time had been taken already to input data.


Hope my slightly random thoughts are some help.

The more I read back the more I realise their failings and that if they do submit that email as evidence I don't have anything to worry about.

roger196

teeandrew wrote: »

After the files were deleted it was agreed with the MD that we would revert back to the manual system as too much time had been taken already to input data.
QUOTE]

By whom was this agreement made, was it verbal, written or implied and on what date. Do you have any memo's which refer to keeping the manual system, or ones which refer to going back onto the computer system. Did the auditors (either internal or external) make any comment about the manual system. Were these comments bought to your attention and on what date. Were you offered any training with this system and on what dates. Can you identify any problems that being on a manual system created.

petty cash discrepancies
If you were on leave at the time they were discovered, how are they pinning responsibility on you and not on anybody else who had access. When you went on leave were you given instructions to reconcile the petty cah before handing over.

Please remember this is an open forum, I am only suggesting questions not necessarily expecting an answer.