MSE News: Open University pulls plug on Tesco-funded degrees

The_One_Who

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

No university is a charity, they all have to generate income in some way.

I'm not sure if all are, but Glasgow definitely is. It's probably for tax purposes more than anything, but universities can still be charities.

Just had a quick look at the other big universities in Scotland and they are all registered charities.

MrsManda

Universities under English Law can qualify for Exempt Charity Status - they get all the tax benefits of being a charity but don't have to be overseen by the Charity Commission because they are considered to be already supervised by another authority.
They must be able to prove that they have a public benefit but as they're providing education I doubt any university would find that difficult.
Of course charities need to generate income, otherwise how would they work? there is however a difference between income and profit. I think charities are allowed to make a profit if it's in line with their primary purpose i.e. a private school may charge above the actual cost of running the school as long as the money goes into further advancing their purpose. Charities can also have trading arms which do generate a profit outside of their primary purpose but for tax purposes these are separate and I think any profit from the 'trading arm' is taxable if it exceeds a certain limit.

Oldernotwiser

Sorry, I didn't mean the word "charity" in the literal sense but I can see I worded it badly!

farso

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why you guys are complaining. You have had a nice cheap few years of your degree with clubcard vouchers, now you may have to pay full price. I'd count your blessings that you don't have to pay full price for your whole degree like people at actual university.

Spend your clubcard vouchers in store, spend the money you have on OU courses, if you have chosen a good degree it is a worthwhile investment. If you cant afford it, same as everything else, don't have it. Simple.

The_One_Who

farso wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why you guys are complaining. You have had a nice cheap few years of your degree with clubcard vouchers, now you may have to pay full price. I'd count your blessings that you don't have to pay full price for your whole degree like people at actual university.

Spend your clubcard vouchers in store, spend the money you have on OU courses, if you have chosen a good degree it is a worthwhile investment. If you cant afford it, same as everything else, don't have it. Simple.

That's hardly fair. Those at bricks-and-mortar universities get all the loans, grants, etc that are available to them. The OU students don't, and so need to find other ways to pay for the degree, which may well be the only option for them to gain a degree. And I'm pretty sure the way the OU system works it may well work out more expensive than a 'normal' degree.

olly300

The_One_Who wrote: »

That's hardly fair. Those at bricks-and-mortar universities get all the loans, grants, etc that are available to them. The OU students don't, and so need to find other ways to pay for the degree, which may well be the only option for them to gain a degree. And I'm pretty sure the way the OU system works it may well work out more expensive than a 'normal' degree.

You can't make blanket statements like that as you are not comparing like with like.

OU is part-time study only and "normal" universities are generally full time study.

That means you can go out and work full-time while studying for an OU degree. While some "normal" university students can do that there are quite a lot who can't due to the hours they need to attend and study.

OU offers flexible learning - you can choose what modules you like and take years to get your degree. I've met people who it took them 12 years to get an OU degree.

"Normal" universities have strict criteria on how long you can take to get your degree and you have to follow a stricter degree program.

The OU tuition fees work out more expensive for UK students however "normal" university full-time students end up in more debt due to having to pay back loans for tuition fees and living costs.

Stryder

the point is that people began a journey - a long journey - using the vouchers. However, to be be cut short with 4 months notice is unfair - especially as it may stop people finishing the level (or year) that they are on. It i like using airmiles to go to Sydney, and when you are about to return, them cancelling the scheme.

The point is there should have been a fairer phasing out or closure, if they have to do this.

And although I am not complaining, the OU courses are not cheap. For a French course which would have used about 30 hours of a tutors time per class of about 15), 3 hours of their time per student and plus 4 books and 2 dvds - £450. As I paid 1/2 in case, they still would get about £250. 250 * 15 = 3750 PER tutor group. There were many French classes, so either way, the university does not go into debt with these fees

I am sure some courses require much more spending, but the point is they could have acted differently. A percentage cap of vouchers, a full 1 years continuation for people already funding themselves this way, a reduction on the amount of OU vouchers per Tesco voucher, etc etc. This could have applied to existing students only, and enforce the new rules to all new registrations.

The OU was set up to help educate those who wanted educating. it is not a "commercial" company but set up by the government to offer education. Why should education be the privilege of the rich????? If people are prepared to educate themselves, and are willing to help pay, what better thing is there?

personally I can not find work for love nor money - so I am studying to get out of an employment black hole. The OU has always helped those who can not get to a University for various reasons - often finance or personal commitments. IT IS NOT AN EASY CHOISE

The_One_Who

olly300 wrote: »

You can't make blanket statements like that as you are not comparing like with like.

OU is part-time study only and "normal" universities are generally full time study.

That means you can go out and work full-time while studying for an OU degree. While some "normal" university students can do that there are quite a lot who can't due to the hours they need to attend and study.

OU offers flexible learning - you can choose what modules you like and take years to get your degree. I've met people who it took them 12 years to get an OU degree.

"Normal" universities have strict criteria on how long you can take to get your degree and you have to follow a stricter degree program.

The OU tuition fees work out more expensive for UK students however "normal" university full-time students end up in more debt due to having to pay back loans for tuition fees and living costs.

I was referring to Farso's attitude of 'if you can't afford it, don't have it'. For many people the OU is the only option for them and having some sort of funding help is incredibly beneficial for them. I hate the commercialisation of degrees and of universities. I believe people should be able to study what they want without needing to have a set 'plan' for the future. I wonder how many people would be at university right now if they had to pay for it without loans.

olly300

Stryder wrote: »

the point is that people began a journey - a long journey - using the vouchers. However, to be be cut short with 4 months notice is unfair - especially as it may stop people finishing the level (or year) that they are on. It i like using airmiles to go to Sydney, and when you are about to return, them cancelling the scheme.

The point is there should have been a fairer phasing out or closure, if they have to do this.

I agree that's the unfair point to wipe with 4 months notice as I stated in my previous posts that strangely have not all been copied to this thread.

Stryder wrote: »

And although I am not complaining, the OU courses are not cheap. For a French course which would have used about 30 hours of a tutors time per class of about 15), 3 hours of their time per student and plus 4 books and 2 dvds - £450. As I paid 1/2 in case, they still would get about £250. 250 * 15 = 3750 PER tutor group. There were many French classes, so either way, the university does not go into debt with these fees

You have forgotten to add in to the equation:
1. Cost of hiring and paying tutor for providing lessons and marking
2. Support staff both language, general and IT and their offices
3. Cost of writing and manufacturing course materials
4. Cost of distributing course materials
5. Cost of hiring teaching rooms
6. Cost of setting exams and marking them
7. Cost of subsiding some students
8. Cost OU servers and software licenses

BTW the fees for courses increased much more than inflation between this year and last year.

Stryder wrote: »

I am sure some courses require much more spending, but the point is they could have acted differently.

They have got rid of a lot of those.

Science courses and summer schools tend to cost more to run as people need to attend in person.

Stryder wrote: »

A percentage cap of vouchers, a full 1 years continuation for people already funding themselves this way, a reduction on the amount of OU vouchers per Tesco voucher, etc etc. This could have applied to existing students only, and enforce the new rules to all new registrations.

I don't know why they did this but I guess it is because they thought doing this would be too complicated.

Stryder wrote: »

The OU was set up to help educate those who wanted educating. it is not a "commercial" company but set up by the government to offer education. Why should education be the privilege of the rich????? If people are prepared to educate themselves, and are willing to help pay, what better thing is there?

You have not mentioned Tescos in your rant. I'm surprised as I bet they have a lot to do with this.

Also as stated on many threads university funding across the board is in crisis. Anyone who is not from a wealthy background is suffering.

Stryder wrote: »

personally I can not find work for love nor money - so I am studying to get out of an employment black hole.
The OU has always helped those who can not get to a University for various reasons - often finance or personal commitments. IT IS NOT AN EASY CHOISE

I suggest you write to Tescos and ask why they are not helping people with higher education.

You can also join the facebook group and direct national newspapers to the story.

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Observer [EMAIL="letters@observer.co.uk"]letters@observer.co.uk[/EMAIL]
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Oldernotwiser

Stryder wrote: »

And although I am not complaining, the OU courses are not cheap. For a French course which would have used about 30 hours of a tutors time per class of about 15), 3 hours of their time per student and plus 4 books and 2 dvds - £450. As I paid 1/2 in case, they still would get about £250. 250 * 15 = 3750 PER tutor group. There were many French classes, so either way, the university does not go into debt with these fees.

You're making the same mistake that younger students at bricks and mortar universities make- you cannot calculate any university's funding on the basis of tutorial time only.