Cam Belt fail only 9 months after replacement by dealer - what would you do?

goldspanners

Premier wrote: »

There are lumps in the belt that mesh with the pulley to ensure accurate timing, correct, but not what I would call teeth.

It would be interesting to know whether it is the tearing of the belt that the OP was referring to rather than the failure of teeth on a gearwheel.

heres an industry that calls those lumps teeth. we all knew the op meant the teeth on the toothed timing belt,and we all knew the op meant gearwheel when they mentioned pulleys,but you chose to be a pedant in those instances.

Premier_2

goldspanners wrote: »

heres an industry that calls those lumps teeth. we all knew the op meant the teeth on the toothed timing belt,and we all knew the op meant gearwheel when they mentioned pulleys,but you chose to be a pedant in those instances.

Is that the royal "we"? :rolleyes:

I am trying to help the OP - many people here seem more intent in arguing about the terminology.

If I knew what the OP meant originally, I wouldn't have posted what I did, would I?

The OP has since clarified what was meant, even if it was just me who failed to understand ... but at least I was trying to help, unlike some!
Lets not try and derail another thread please.:)

Perhaps look at the previous and see if 2 "teeth" missing on a "cam belt" would actually cause engine damage can we? Or feel free to post better pictures of the actual situation on a Zafira if that would help explain the situation better.

SignificantAlter

the way it was explained to me is thus:
teeth sheared from the belt, sufficient to cause the belt to slip off the pulleys.... valve bent, et voila

there is now a misfire in cyl 4 and reduced compression

Premier_2

SignificantAlter wrote: »

the way it was explained to me is thus:
teeth sheared from the belt, sufficient to cause the belt to slip off the pulleys.... valve bent, et voila

there is now a misfire in cyl 4 and reduced compression

If you look at the photos posted earlier, that doesn't really make sense.

The belt shouldn't slip off the pulleys with the damage you have been informed of. It would be more likely to slip on the pulley, but as I pointed out, there appears to be about a dozen locations, not 2, per pulley to keep the timing correct.

If the belt has slipped off the pulley as was described, then the damage to the belt may have occurred after it became loose. Insufficient tension could be the reason for the belt to come off the pulley.

goldspanners

Premier wrote: »

Perhaps look at the previous and see if 2 "teeth" missing on a "cam belt" would actually cause engine damage can we?

its not outwith the realms of possibility.
your picture of the camshaft sprockets would say there were enough coverage from the other teeth to not allow the belt to slip, but when the part of the belt with the 2 missing teeth pass over a smaller sprocket (like the water pump) this could cause the belt to go slack just enough for the belt to jump at another part.
if the op has a bent valve then the timing must be out, the only reason for the belt timing to be out is for the belt to have slipped or jumped.

Premier_2

Here's the water pump



Difficult to judge the size but unlikely for a belt to come loose, but in worse case scenario to slip on the water pump pulley ultimately possibly leading to cooling issues (as pump fails to turn for short time), or more likely to further damage the belt as it re-catches later.

The OP has described the belt has slipped off the pulleys - that would cause the engine damage, and possible damage to the belt as I suggested in my earlier post.

blued

Premier wrote: »

If a belt becomes damaged because oil is leaking from elsewhere onto it, nothing to do with the replacement of the cambelt the dealer was ealier requesed to carry out, then the garage will not be liable for the subsequent deterioration of the belt due to such oil leak. (unless you could prove the oil was leaking at the time of fitment and the garage should have been reasonably aware that such leak would damage the belt)

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

Premier_2

blued wrote: »

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

That may be what you thought you had posted but in fact you posted pretty much the opposite.

You said if the failure was due to a failed pulley which probably wasn't replaced as it wasn't due, then the garage would not be liable, ... otherwise they would.

I said if the belt was damaged by dropping oil then the garage would not be liable (unless specific circumstances made them)

Homersimpson

The problem with losing teeth on a cam belt is not the cam pulleys (the big ones on the camshafts which were pictured previously) its the crank pulley at the bottom of the engine that has half as many teeth and hence a much smaller pulley. I had an MGF a few years back where the cambelt lost three teeth and the belt stopped turning the cams with catastrophic results.

I would not get the dealer to look at it as they will find what they want to find - i'm 100% sure of that!

If you genuinely want to prove that the main dealer is a fault then you need to get an independant and most importantly, credible expert to look at the car and provide a report. If the belt were to be faulty then it wouldn't be the dealers fault from a workmanship point of view but the belt which they supplied would have a 12months warranty I would have thought?

My own experience with dealing with main dealers is that they arn't any better than smaller independants, they may have a nice shiny show room and lots of people sitting around in suits but when things go wrong they tend to still tell you to "sling your hook".

Wig

OP,

Without reading all of your post or any other post on the thread. If I were you I would ask for an independant engineer to do a report, don't let them see it until this has been done.

It may cost you £100+ but it may turn out to be worth it. Unfortunately, if they agree with the report straight away, you won't be able to recover the cost of the report from a small claims action against them. However if they disagree with the report, and the report finds in your favour then recovery of the cost through a court may be possible.

Obviously try as hard as you can to get a good engineer who knows his stuff.

Sorry to be quick with you. but I want to watch day of the triffids