Investment advice for Residential Home Fees.

smudge22

Bess, firstly her fees should be paid for by the NHS if she has dementia. Has she been CHC assessed, if not she should be. Go to the website that will help you nhscare.info you will find all the info there to help you get the correct funding. Its a hard battle but worth doing so, it took me 6 years and I won funding for my mum who has dementia, the NHS refunded all her fees + interest. £120000+, its worth doing, why should she pay for her care, NHS Act 1948 cradle to grave not cradle till you're too ill to notice that we are taking your money!! Best of luck

DiggerUK

[QUOTE Bess09 "As I see it my duties are firstly; to provide a comfortable home and the best care I can for my mother for the rest of her life. And secondly, to maximise the rest so that when the time comes, I can fulfill the terms of her Will and her wishes. QUOTE]

This is a perfectly proper approach.

To have a charge of not acting in the best interests of your mother upheld, it would first be necessary to prove that you had acted against her best interests.
If you could show that you had acted properly in the provision of her care, then it would be perfectly acceptable to justify acting in a way your mother would have done if she was in control of her affairs. This would include doing all you could to see her wishes, as expressed in her will, upheld.

The best advice has come from smudge22, I post the link they are not yet allowed to.
http://gpss.npl.com/nhscare/

As to your suggestion that a small amount go into Premium Bonds, and the reactions you received, I don't believe any court will say that money put with National Savings & Investments is reckless, gambling, or against your mothers best interests.

Best of fortune to both of you.

Biggles

smudge22 wrote: »

Bess, firstly her fees should be paid for by the NHS if she has dementia.

Most residents of care homes have dementia to some degree or another. The vast majority will not get their fees paid by the NHS.

However much I agree with your sentiments, the fact is that the NHS will only pay for the more severe cases.

DiggerUK wrote: »

If you could show that you had acted properly in the provision of her care, then it would be perfectly acceptable to justify acting in a way your mother would have done if she was in control of her affairs. This would include doing all you could to see her wishes, as expressed in her will, upheld.

As to your suggestion that a small amount go into Premium Bonds, and the reactions you received, I don't believe any court will say that money put with National Savings & Investments is reckless, gambling, or against your mothers best interests.

Actually, the words were "the maximum in premium bonds", not "a small amount". If her mother's funds ran out after, say 8 years, and she had to make a change of home that was detrimental to her health, then would a court say it had been against her best interests?

dzug1

Biggles wrote: »

Actually, the words were "the maximum in premium bonds", not "a small amount". If her mother's funds ran out after, say 8 years, and she had to make a change of home that was detrimental to her health, then would a court say it had been against her best interests?

But at whose instigation is a court going to be looking at it at all? An interested and knowledgeable party is going to have to make a complaint.

And you haven't lost the £30K, you'll have had a string of small prizes on it amounting to much the same as a no-notice savings account and more than some.

I still don't think it's a good idea though - but not a terrible one, and not a litigable one, if that's a word.

dunstonh

But at whose instigation is a court going to be looking at it at all? An interested and knowledgeable party is going to have to make a complaint.

Dont rule out the anger and conflict that can occur with siblings when an estate is due to be paid out.

And you haven't lost the £30K, you'll have had a string of small prizes on it amounting to much the same as a no-notice savings account and more than some.

The objective is to provide an income to pay for the care of the mother using the mother's money. Do Premium Bonds meet that objective? No. They do not provide an income and you are gambling the return on the hope of getting a prize that can cover the income. Even if you get the average you are not going to come close to meeting the objective.

I still don't think it's a good idea though - but not a terrible one, and not a litigable one, if that's a word.

I get where you are coming from. However, if an IFA was to do that then it could easily be an upheld complaint as the objectives are not met. So, on that basis, I think its a terrible idea

Bess09

Many thanks for more helpful replies. I asked both the secretary and the owner of the Home if other residents had bought annuities, so know that no one has.

Smudge, I listened to a radio programme recently which featured a woman who had done what you have and I mentioned to the Home that I wondered about it for Mum. (She did have an assessment last year.) The manager told me that one resident's family were trying to get NHS funding now for their mother who is bedridden and in a worse state than mine. They didn't hold out much hope, so I left it. But I will look at the site that you and Digger mentioned and think about it again. Thankyou.

Mum will not leave the home she is in, it is a fabulous place, somewhere I would be happy to be if I needed the kind of care my mother does now. It is small, the staff are kind and treat all the residents so kindly and gently, maintaining their dignity in the most difficult circumstances. She lived with me for a while, but now needs 24 hour care and sadly I know it is not something I can provide any more, it has got so bad.

I hadn't thought that I would be gambling with Mum's money in Premium Bonds, she already has a few and was very keen on them, but I can see that it could look that way....It's just that with interest rates so low, and the capital secure it didn't seem such a stupid idea to me, but perhaps it is.......

You are right though, I must be so careful. One relative wanted me to find a cheaper home for Mum so that our eventual inheritance would be more, but I insisted that this was the only one I would consider and in the event she fell, breaking a second hip, so the choice had to be made very quickly.

It has taken some time for me to come to terms with what has happened to my mother, I have found making these decisions hard, because she is the one person I usually asked for an opinion on big things I thought of doing....selling her house without telling her was dreadful. I just couldn't let her know, she would have been so upset and there was no option......she is in a kind of 'safe harbour' now, happy and content thankfully. I know dementia isn't always like this and it may change for her, but I do hope not.

It looks as though the annuity is the way to go, it would be a relief I think to know that she will always be provided for safely. I'll find an IFA soon and see what we can do, and will let you all know what happens in case you are interested. Many thanks again, I appreciate all your advice and comments. And Happy New Year, Bess.

dunstonh

I asked both the secretary and the owner of the Home if other residents had bought annuities, so know that no one has.

doesnt surprise me. My own experience is that most favour the investment option. However, that doesnt make the annuity option bad. As I said earlier on, its a judgement call which only time of death will let you know which option was best. The annuity option is guaranteed though and will provide the highest income and is tax free.

The investment option though would require some investment risk. That doesnt mean going gung ho but if you are not going to consider investments and your options are effectively cash savings or the annuity. In that case, the annuity wins hands down as cash savings is guaranteed to lose money. Investments could lose money. Only the annuity is guaranteed to provide enough income.

Also, you typically find that the annuity option is only available via IFAs. I dont believe you can buy direct. So, unless you use an IFA you are not going to be told about them. How many in the home have IFAs?

I hadn't thought that I would be gambling with Mum's money in Premium Bonds, she already has a few and was very keen on them, but I can see that it could look that way....It's just that with interest rates so low, and the capital secure it didn't seem such a stupid idea to me, but perhaps it is.......

The average win amount on premium bonds is l.50% of capital. So, actually the average is a lot worse than most savings accounts.

Bess09

Thanks dunstonh, how do I find a good IFA? Been difficult so far, I looked on a register on the internet but this didn't really tell me anything much about the person individually. One IFA I know is corrupt and had been to prison, the other indepedent one I mentioned seemed ok, didn't know about care home annuiites until I mentioned them and rather put me off when he advertised frequently in our local paper, offering his services to help people find a loophole in credit card agreements. Hmm...any advice?

EdInvestor

Bess09 wrote: »

They all recommended Care Home annuities in varying amounts and investing the rest. The independent chap, promising the moon. Her bank (HSBC) are keen to offer advice too........

One would not normally recommend going to a bank, but in this case it's appropriate as HSBC recently bought the biggest specialist IFA in the care home fees field, NHFA, with many years experience as an independent.

http://www.nhfa.co.uk/?gclid=CJCB-aHyg58CFSBk4wodgzD7JQ

jamesd

Bess09, it's hard to see any good in two broken hips but that and any other adverse health item will greatly reduce the cost of an immediate needs annuity. It seems likely that an annuity paying perhaps £3,000 to £4,000 combined with investments would be sufficient to cover needs after allowing for the reduced annuity cost.

In addition to the place EdInvestor mentioned you can find more IFAs at unbiased.co.uk. Worth trying NHFA first to get some idea of cost and income available.