'Deemed Contract' and other issues w/ gas supplier

KConrad

Scenario goes like this:

We buy a house in July 2008. We move in an enjoy a nice toasty winter thanks to our gas furnace. We move out in April 2009. Renters move in. In October 2009, the renters call us wondering why the furnace doesn't work. We do some digging and apparently the gas was shut off. We called the municipality and they inform us that they do not supply gas (news to us). Obviously we wonder where we were getting gas from... They give us a number, we call the gas company (there is only one supplier in this area). They say they shut off the gas in July due to non-payment.

We did not receive one bill from them. The supplier said they sent out a notice to contact them in May 2009 (after we had moved out)... so from July 2008 until May 2009, they didn't care that we were using their gas enough to maybe send a letter or anything.

We asked them to reconnect the gas (October 2009). They said we would have to open an account with them first...... Does this seem strange? We don't have an account, yet we had been receiving gas for a whole year...

So we opened an account. First bill we got had a previous balance of '0' plus the first month of usage. This is normal. Second bill we got three days later had a previous balance stated to be '1741', with no other details. We had some issues with this of course. We called the supplier and asked for a bill that showed where these charges came from. At first they said no such bill could exist. Then they said (different person) that the amount was an estimate, more specifically, the total amount used (from meter readings from June 2008 to July 2009) multiplied by an average cost of gas over the time period.

So my questions are:

1. Can someone 'deem' you to have made a contract if you accept something from them and do not know that you have accepted?

2. Is it wrong for me to expect actual amounts and actual costs detailed on the same document that is used to calculate the amount I should owe?

3. What legal fallbacks do I have (if any) regarding not paying the amount they pulled out of the air until I can get an actual amount? Can they shut off the gas again? (We are current with new charges)

4. Why did they not try to contact us?

5. Can I deliver the gas company an envelope full ice chips, deem them to have made a contract to buy these cooling chips upon their acceptance of the envelope, and then send them a legally binding bill?

If anyone has any tips for dealing with this matter, please let me know.

SwanJon

KConrad wrote: »

We called the municipality and they inform us that they do not supply gas (news to us). Obviously we wonder where we were getting gas from... They give us a number, we call the gas company (there is only one supplier in this area).

Where do you live? Mains gas in Britain (i.e. not NI) is subject to comeptition.
Who did you contact before you started using the gas? Who did you inform when you moved out?

KConrad wrote: »

We did not receive one bill from them. The supplier said they sent out a notice to contact them in May 2009 (after we had moved out)... so from July 2008 until May 2009, they didn't care that we were using their gas enough to maybe send a letter or anything.

Any you didn't care enough to ask for one.

KConrad wrote: »

We asked them to reconnect the gas (October 2009). They said we would have to open an account with them first...... Does this seem strange? We don't have an account, yet we had been receiving gas for a whole year...

If the gas had been disconnected, they would open a new account for after the reconnection. They would then be able to transfer the unpaid bill from the old account to the new one.

KConrad wrote: »

So my questions are:

1. Can someone 'deem' you to have made a contract if you accept something from them and do not know that you have accepted?

Can you honestly argue that you didn't know you were using gas? (I'm not saying this would be a very good argument even if true)

KConrad wrote: »

2. Is it wrong for me to expect actual amounts and actual costs detailed on the same document that is used to calculate the amount I should owe?

No, but in this case, some of the balance has been carried forward from another document - you could ask to see that document as well.

KConrad wrote: »

3. What legal fallbacks do I have (if any) regarding not paying the amount they pulled out of the air until I can get an actual amount? Can they shut off the gas again? (We are current with new charges)

Are you disputing that you should pay for the gas you have used?
They will have taken a reading when they disconnected you, so all charges should be based on accurate readings.
They have every legal right to disconnect you again.

KConrad wrote: »

4. Why did they not try to contact us?

Maybe they didn't know who you were? When did you tell them?

KConrad wrote: »

5. Can I deliver the gas company an envelope full ice chips, deem them to have made a contract to buy these cooling chips upon their acceptance of the envelope, and then send them a legally binding bill?

Really?

KConrad wrote: »

If anyone has any tips for dealing with this matter, please let me know.

I work for British Gas, and my answer is based on my experience there, but is my answer, not an official one.

gemstars

A 'deemed contract' is created when you start using the supply at the new address you move into. This contract is with the company supplying the address when the last person moved out.

This is done so that you can use the lights/heating/etc as soon as you move in.

You have used their energy so you will have to pay for it. Sorry if this sounds rude but you're post comes across like you're trying to get out of paying for it altogether!

You should have taken readings when you moved in and when you moved out. If you give these to the company they can give you a bill based on actual readings, if you didn't then all they can do is estimate your usage.

Oh - and I suppose if you mailed your ice chips and then they used them to cool their drinks (ignoring the fact that they would have melted) then I'd guess you might be able to ask payment for them :rolleyes:

Cardew

From some of the terminology I get the impression that the OP might be from the USA? Which might explain some of his comments.

Gas and Electricity supply in UK is governed by Parliamentary legislation - The Gas act and The Electricity Act.

The Gas/Electricity supplier must leave gas/electricity connected to the property so the new occupant can move in and start using that energy.(not like the USA where suppliers can, and do, disconnect)

Tied in with the above, as soon as you use gas and/or electricity you have entered a legally binding Deemed Contract.

The Gas company have no idea if the property is occupied or not, and thus if you are using gas. Indeed how would they know if you didn't tell them? Keep sending people around every week? Month? hoping to catch you in and that you will admit to being the occupant and let them in to read the meter?

Not a problem in the States - you are just disconnected.

You have a responsibility under that legally binding deemed contract to inform the supply company you are using their gas/electricity.

So you have been completely in the wrong under UK law.

You can take steps to challenge how much your debt is, but you are not arguing from a position of strength.

Incidentally you should check your credit record as this saga can affect it.

If you go to court, you are likely to lose and attract costs.