Dismissed - Gross Misconduct - Unauthorised Absence

OFTBC

Hi,

This could be a long post so I hope you are able to keep up with it and welcome any possible advice. Il try to keep this as short as I can whilst giving you as much info as possible.

In Sept-Oct I was signed off of work due to depression. My depression was caused mainly by things that had gone on in work like a disciplinary hearing where I was suspended for 3 weeks which later they decided to take no further action. That put me under a huge amount of stress. Following my return to work from that suspension I felt as if I was being bullied and harassed by the management team because they had failed to get rid of me due to them failing to follow proper procedure. I was also the talk of the warehouse and in the end I just couldn't handle anymore. I went to see the doctor and they signed me off with depression.

In total I had around 6 weeks off work due to my illness, On my return to work I had my return to work with a manager that has always had it in for me and then I resumed work. Everyone was asking me why I was off and I just made up something about my ears as I didn't want them to know the real reason, Throughout the night it became clear to me that everyone knew about me suffering from depression. I knew for a fact the only person at work I told was my manager and that was because I had to. People than began to give me funny looks and talking about me. Following the end of my shift I went home and felt very down about what had happened that night. The next evening I returned to work and about a hour and a half into my shift I had already heard some more stuff said about me, 4 people come up to me and were asking me if it was true that I had attempted to kill myself by various means, This was totally untrue and for it it was the final straw and I walked out and went home as I couldn't handle it no more. I couldn't stand to carry on working for a company that had broke their confidentiality over such sensitive information. No manager rang me that evening to find out what had happened to me.

Over the next couple of days I went back to my doctor and she signed me off for a further week so I could get back on track, However when that week was up I returned and said I still don't feel ready to return and she disagreed and wouldn't sign me off for any longer. Since then I have not returned to work as I wasn't ready. If I would have returned to work they would have sent me home as I wasn't fit to return to work due to my state of mind.

The day I handed in my sick note I received a letter asking me to attend a investigation meeting for the following day in relation to the allegation that I left the site during my shift and didn't return. The next day I received a letter saying they received my sick note and have postponed the investigation meeting.

On the 2nd December I received another letter asking me to attend the rearranged investigation meeting on the 3rd. As that was my birthday and had already made plans for the day I took up a letter asking for them to rearrange the meeting as I was unable to attend. In the letter they said I was able to rearrange if I wasn't available. I failed to receive a reply.

On Friday as I hadn't received any correspondence or phone calls from them I gave them a letter which explained the reasons for my absence and why I walked out.

Today out of the blue I received a letter saying they held a disciplinary meeting on the 15th and they have dismissed me. Apparently they sent me a letter on the 7th Dec by recorded delivery informing me of this meeting for which I have never received. In that mysterious letter it also apparently said if I failed to attend they would go ahead and hold it without me being there If I would have received it then I would to have had to sign for it which I haven't done. The first I know of this meeting was today when I received this letter.

It says in the minutes from the disciplinary meeting that I failed to follow procedure which is untrue as I did. The procedure is to ring a hot line and leave a message and a manager will get back to me for which they never did. It took them all of 15 minutes to hold that meeting and to dismiss me.

It says in the letter I have 7 calender days from today to submit a appeal if I wish.

Now I know what I have done wasn't right but what needs to be remembered is I was suffering from depression. It's only been the last two weeks where I have felt normal again.

I'm not even sure if I would want to return there if I had the chance but feel I may have grounds for appeal as they haven't followed procedure and it was them that broke their confidentiality.

In all honesty I want to appeal mainly so I can clear my name as I feel as if I have been portrayed as the bad guy whilst the real bad guys are there laughing about me because they have finally got rid of me.

I thank you for taking the time to read and welcome and comments and advice.

jdturk

unfortunately you were unreliable and thus they got rid of you, there was a bit of tit for tat by the sounds of it but tbh I think that unless they did the procedure wrong you have little chance as you walked out on a shift.

Also because you were suffering from depression please be aware you may have blown things out of proportion yourself during this period yourself and the only question I have is do you want to go through with the hassle which could make you fall back into depression again?

I'm not saying your work have done things right but from their point of view whilst you weren't signed off you walked ou, you should have gone for a second opinion if you disagreed with your Dr's verdict that you didn't need another dr's note

sulkisu

One of the main sticking points seems to be the fact that you failed to attend the disciplinary on 7 December. They say they wrote to you and you say that you didn't receive the letter. It was allegedly sent recorded delivery, so I would be asking for proof of this - which should be easy for them to prove. If it turns out that the letter was not sent/delivered, you can say that you were not given a fair opportunity to explain yourself at the hearing. On the other hand, you walked out for a reason - presumably because of what people were saying and how they treated you. Do you really want to go back? I understand that you feel that you need to fight back, but sometimes we have to choose our battles. Is the potential stress and strain of an appeal worth it? Especially as your case is not particularly strong. The bottom line is that your doctor signed you as fit to return to work and you walked out. Unless you really want your job back, I would be tempted to let it go. But that's just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

BligBlag

Although your boss is an idiot (he shouldn't have divulged your reasons for being off sick) it seems that they have followed procedure.

In their eyes you returned to work after several weeks off sick only to walk out mid-shift the next day without informing anybody. Then when your current sick note ran out you failed to return to work, then failed to attend a disciplinary hearing.

I think your best bet is to to plead your ignorance over the letter they sent with the disciplinary date on and ask that they reschedule. Maybe ask that they also e-mail you as well as send a letter.

Good Luck.

olly300

Check your PMs

Kay_Peel

Your depression has its roots in your workplace. To me, it sounds less like depression and more like 'unhappiness at work'. For instance, when you say that you can't work but that you can still make plans and go out for your birthday, I can see why your doctor wouldn't give you a sick note! Clinically depressed people don't go out on their birthdays, but unhappy people can do. It's probable that you would not be unhappy if you worked elsewhere. If I were you, I'd start looking for another job in earnest and meanwhile I'd keep my options open by:

- asking for proof of the recorded delivery and tell them that it hadn't been received yet
- ask for the disciplinary hearing to be rescheduled
- prepare an explanation for each of the instances of gross misconduct properly (if you can explain them away)
- consider resigning before the date of the second hearing

My health and happiness and future prospects of employment would be more important to me than being at loggerheads with my employers.

OFTBC

Thanks everyone for your replies so far, I understand what you have all said about the extra stress etc but I would really like to give it a fight, Prior to me walking out I had just set the ball rolling for me to go onto the day shift where it is completely different staff and management so although if I did get reinstated I wouldn't be Kean on a return to the night shift the day shift option would suit me.

I know I haven't handled myself perfectly and I don't want to give any excuses for that but I do want to point out that when your suffering depression you don't tend to live in the real world.

The night shift management have been trying to get me out for a while now and to me I don' want them to win, I was in the wrong but at the time I thought I was doing what was best for me. As I am now fully recovered then maybe what I did wasn't so wrong.

I haven't gone into all the full details as I didn't want the post to go on even longer and by looking at teh ACAS guide it seems they may not have followed procedure just like I may not have.

I don't know how relevant this is it could just be minor but all the investigation meetings they planned and sent me letters for was for walking out during a shift, They held that investigation in my absence despite me having asked to rearrange it, In the minutes from the disciplinary which was attended by only the site manager and the HR manager it says this is a follow on to the investigation meeting that was held in my absence. What I'm getting at but struggling to explain is they have dismissed me for unauthorised absence but the disciplinary was a follow on to the investigation of me walking out, There is nothing in the minutes or the accompany letter which mentions anything about me walking out yet that is what the disciplinary was meant to be for. I know I've struggled to explain taht but hope you can sort of see what I'm getting at. I would also argue that they have failed to carry out a full and open investigation. All they know from the investigation is I walked out and have not returned to work since, I requested they rearranged teh investigation meeting which they failed to do so how can they say they carried out a full investigation?

I also requested in writing to them that I would take them up on their offer to see the company doctor for which they never got back to me about. I wanted to see the company doctor as a second opinions to my own doctors.

Thanks again for your advice.

OFTBC

olly300 wrote: »

Check your PMs

Thanks for your pm! Il reply to you tomorrow after I've slept on everything. Thanks again!

OFTBC

Kay_Peel wrote: »

Your depression has its roots in your workplace. To me, it sounds less like depression and more like 'unhappiness at work'. For instance, when you say that you can't work but that you can still make plans and go out for your birthday, I can see why your doctor wouldn't give you a sick note! Clinically depressed people don't go out on their birthdays, but unhappy people can do. It's probable that you would not be unhappy if you worked elsewhere. If I were you, I'd start looking for another job in earnest and meanwhile I'd keep my options open by:

- asking for proof of the recorded delivery and tell them that it hadn't been received yet
- ask for the disciplinary hearing to be rescheduled
- prepare an explanation for each of the instances of gross misconduct properly (if you can explain them away)
- consider resigning before the date of the second hearing

My health and happiness and future prospects of employment would be more important to me than being at loggerheads with my employers.

Thanks for your reply. I have a long history of suffering from depression, The reasons for it go very deep. In all the times I have seen doctors down the years due to depression they have always advised me to try and get myself out of the slump I'm in and do things that I would usually enjoy doing. I can assure you being unhappy and being depressed is two totally different things. For my birthday I didn't have a choice if I went out or not, My family who have been very supportive organised a day out for me to lift my spirits, I wasn't keen on it but my children were. They were so excited there was no way I could let them down. I just had to smile and do it for them.

My doctor didn't want to give me another sick note as she thought it would be more harmful to myself by prolonging it etc. I however thought it would be too early for myself to go back and going back would actually set me back even more like it did before. This time I thought !!!!!! it, Don't worry about the money you will lose just concentrate on recovering as basically my health is more important than anything else. As I now feel I am back to my normal self I do believe my actions were correct even tho they may be viewed as incorrect.

Yes it says I have to appeal in writing given written reasons why I am appealing so I shall be including things like you have mentioned in taht letter.

Thanks for your input:xmassign:

BligBlag

OFTBC wrote: »

All they know from the investigation is I walked out and have not returned to work since.

I think that would be reason enough in most compaines for dismissal. You can't just walk out of your job and not expect to be pulled up on it.

I think you're clutching at straws. On the one hand you say you suffer from Depression and have spent several weeks off work because of it and feel bullied by your colleagues, yet on the other hand you want to fight them to prove a point, and maybe get your job back. It seems a little misplaced to me. Why would you want to go through the aggro and possibly get your job back if it makes you so ill?

I think Kay Peel has a good point in that you're not necessarily suffering from Clinical Depression, but Unhappiness/Stress related to your job, which is relieved when you're not there.

OFTBC wrote: »

... They held that investigation in my absence despite me having asked to rearrange it ...... I requested they rearranged the investigation meeting which they failed to do so how can they say they carried out a full investigation? ......

But by your own admittance you said they told you a letter was sent out on the 7th for a meeting on the 15th. So according to them they did reschedule the meeting, regardless of whether that letter got to you or not (you need to ask them for proof from Royal Mail that it was sent Recorded Delivery).

You need to look at things from their point of view, not just your own. Ask them to check with Royal Mail regarding the Recordered Delivery letter as you never received it, and in light of being unaware of the meeting on the 15th, request that they rearrange it. Hopefully if they agree, you can give your side of things, people were making hurtful comments so you left, you know you should have informed someone but you were too upset. Tell them you're feeling a lot better, and that you're ready to return to work and won't let them down

OFTBC

think that would be reason enough in most compaines for dismissal. You can't just walk out of your job and not expect to be pulled up on it.

Oh yea I completely expect to get pulled up on that, There was contributing factors that however need to be considered, I don't want to use them as a excuse but there were reasons for it for which at the time I felt like I had no further option to leave, Would they have been happy for me to continue working despite me slipping into a state of mind that could be dangerous in that environment? I felt like I couldn't approach any manager to tell them how I was feeling as I knew one of them had been telling people about my illness so in essence couldn't trust any of them as I wasn't sure who it really was.

Other staff in teh past have walked out for whatever reason, I don't know what happened to them but they didn't get the sack and soon returned to work so you could say they have set a precedent there.

I think you're clutching at straws. On the one hand you say you suffer from Depression and have spent several weeks off work because of it and feel bullied by your colleagues, yet on the other hand you want to fight them to prove a point, and maybe get your job back. It seems a little misplaced to me. Why would you want to go through the aggro and possibly get your job back if it makes you so ill?

I have battled with this for months now, I have had many downs and a few ups, I am now fully confident I am fully recovered. I'm not 100% sure I want my job back, It would have to be something I would have to decide if it ever come to it. I think it would be foolish to not give myself the chance to put my side of the story across.

I think Kay Peel has a good point in that you're not necessarily suffering from Clinical Depression, but Unhappiness/Stress related to your job, which is relieved when you're not there.

I have only said the work side that I believed contributed to it, I don't want to go into my personal life as there was some stuff in there that played a major part also. Put it all together and it put me in a very bad place that I hope I don't ever have to visit again. I also hope I have become stronger from this experience. Everyone becomes unhappy/stressed with their job from time to time. Does someone who sat on teh bus stop in teh middle of the night naked and then proceeded to run through muddy fields full of cows to escape the people looking for me sound like someone who is unhappy with their job?

But by your own admittance you said they told you a letter was sent out on the 7th for a meeting on the 15th. So according to them they did reschedule the meeting, regardless of whether that letter got to you or not (you need to ask them for proof from Royal Mail that it was sent Recorded Delivery).

Sorry I think something has come a little confused somewhere. I asked them to reschedule the investigation meeting taht was arranged for the 3rd, I heard nothing from them. I then sent them a further letter asking why it hadn't been rearranged, Then today I received a letter saying they have heard nothing from me since I gave them my sick note(so I assume they didn't get my request to rearrange the meeting for the 3rd or there just playing dumb) They then went ahead and scheduled a disciplinary meeting for which they say they sent me a letter for which I have never received, They held teh disciplinary meeting without me being there and the first I knew of any such meeting was today when I opened up the letter which informed me I had been dismissed. Hope it is a little clearer now.

You need to look at things from their point of view, not just your own. Ask them to check with Royal Mail regarding the Recordered Delivery letter as you never received it, and in light of being unaware of the meeting on the 15th, request that they rearrange it. Hopefully if they agree, you can give your side of things, people were making hurtful comments so you left, you know you should have informed someone but you were too upset. Tell them you're feeling a lot better, and that you're ready to return to work and won't let them down

What I am interested to know is do I just appeal and let it go to appeal or do I get in contact and explain teh situation regarding teh fact I knew nothing about the said hearing? The problem I have is if I do the later they may just ignore me as i'n no longer an employee and I will miss my window to appeal, However if I go to appeal straight off then I only have one chance. What I believe should happen as it happened in my previous disciplinary case a couple of months back is it should go back to the investigation stage as I wanted to put my side across but they failed to respond to my request to rearrange, Like the last time for a complete separate thing it wasn't investigated properly this time either, Then they should decide if there is a disciplinary case to answer and if so inform me properly of a time and date. I would then be told of any outcome and given the right to appeal.

As far as I am concerned procedure has not been followed properly and that includes from both parties and the procedure and teh ACAS code is what I am concentrating on.

I did read somewhere that if an employee fails to attend a disciplinary meeting then they should be given the opportunity to attend another one, If they then fail to attend that one it is OK to proceed without them.

As they never did that it just seems to me it was clear they wanted rid of me and just went through the motions and hope I just accept it.

I thank you for your reply, It really is helpful to me as it shows me what I am likely to be up against.