Lights tripping out and one plug socket too? Please help!

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

Hi, hope i am posting in the right place.

Ok, we are in a rented place, old old house with old fashioned wiring it seems. Recently our lights downstairs keep tripping out - always triggered by turning on a light switch, to which you hear pop and the lot go. Different light has triggered it each time.

It's a big big pain in the bum as it's the old style fuses in which needs new wire wrapped around the two screws each time - if you know what i mean. And sods law is that we used the last peice of 5amp fuse wire last night and now it has happened again.

The odd thing is just one plug socket isn't working either, everything else seems fine - the socket is upstairs while the affected lights are all downstairs. We haven't noticed the plug socket before as never needed to check it while the lights have gone - however have noticed now as it's a socket we use every evening. Could this be wired into the downstairs lighting circuit for some strange reason???

Does anyone have any idea as to why this tripping of the lights could keep happening?

Many thanks in advance!:o

mikey72

It's very possible the socket is wired, incorrectly, to the lights. What's plugged into the socket? Tbh, whatever it is, unplug it.
If it's rented, get the landlord to get an electrician in.

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

Thank you, just as i suspected - i keep saying this to OH (the plug socket is probably wrongly connected to the lights) but being a women he keeps telling me don't be so silly.

The only thing/things plugged in to the plug socket are a bedside lamp and occasionally a phone or laptop charger.

We need to pick up more fuse wire tomorrow so i suppose if the socket works again after that it is wrongly wired to the lights. Does that render the socket dangerous to use?

Yes i will call the estate agent - problem being is it's very close to xmas and they are really slow, or rather they keep blaming the landlord :mad:. The fridge freezer packed in and they have taken three weeks and it's still not fixed :mad: - just a week prior to that the sink tap was finally fixed even though we told them months ago. So this'll be another thing to get on their cases about. It feels like we are living in a house that is falling apart bit by bit :eek::eek::eek:

I am now very concerned as i don't think we have an RCD (from what i can gather as i have just been reading through the sticky thread on here about electrics). Problem is i am a woman with no experience of these things but i do have common sense which means i am noticing things and trying to figure out just what is happening however with extremely little knowledge on the subject

Finefoot

Safety hazard?!!
dont they have to make sure everything is safe? doesnt matter the age?

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

I know - they are just really crap agents/landlord.

We'll be moving in a few months as we are desperate to get out of this house now that we have found so many faults. My problem is explainig to them when something like this is wrong as they tend to just say but thats not really a problem - ''or how much of a problem is it?'' They said that when the fridge/freezer died - i was gobsmacked!!! So i kind of need to tell them WHY it's hazardous to even get them to do the slightest thing.

So my problem is i don't know if something is hazardous or not, or if it's just a pain in the bum. I am reading so trying to get more info - am i correct in thinking if the socket is linked to the lighting circuit it isn't earthed? If so, can someone explain in lamens terms how that can affect us? Are we talking along the lines of electrocution/house fire? I really wish they taught some of this stuff in school

About the RCD - i am popping out to get new fuse wire in a bit, then i can get a look properly to see if we have one when OH puts it in. With ours it's a matter of turning off the entire power of the house to rewire the damn thing. As far as i'm aware there are no trip switches whatsoever - apart from one switch to shut the whole power off. Does anyone know what i mean?

Many thanks again!

keystone

For goodness sake stop trying to DIY this please.

The fuse popping is a symptom NOT the problem but I think you know that and from your description it sounds as thought the whole installation is extremely flaky.

You have a potentially (if not actually) dangerous situation on your hands and whether the landlord is any good or not or whether you are moving in five minutes or 10 months it needs looking at by an electrican. If the landlord or the agent won't get one out (and it is HIS responsibility via them) tell the agent that you are going to and you will deduct the bill from the next payment due.

BTW old style fuse boxes and RCDs aren't compatible or interchangeable.

Cheers

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

OK i am not trying to DIY this - simply changing the fuse wire - as you would in the other style where you'd need to put a new fuse in. I am simply asking for some insight into what is happening so i can understand it better.

I f i get on the phone and tell the agents they'll do nothing util after xmas - this i can almost garuantee. The other problem is i have no further payments with them as the last was this month for rent as we are paid up in advance on our contract. So unless a leccy wants to come and do a free job as i am skint until next pay day then i am stuffed over xmas - hence why i am trying to get as much info as poss so i can have a go at the agent and know what i am talking about.

Trust me i have had dealing with the gas boiler packing in - had to get this fixed myself (called engineer in and paid myself) as agent was taking forever. Broken window handle - still not fixed so our bathroom window cannot shut properly, problem from when we moved in. Broken kitchen tap which evidently had a botched job done prior to us moving in hence why it broke so soon after - finally got that fixed a few weeks ago even though it was reprted over and over again months ago. Broken cistern - which OH went out and bought a new part and done himself as was so angry at previous help. Fridge - still not fixed nearly four weeks on, keep sending repairmen who say a whole new one is needed, so instead of buying a new one they'll send a different bloke to have a look. This has happened 3 times so we'll have no fridge for xmas. And now this.

I hope you can see why i am frustrated and trying to get some of my own info - i am not stupid and wouldn't dare try to repair anything electrical myself. Just trying to get some understanding so i can pass it on to OH who will call them as he seems to get listened to much more than i do from the agents.

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

Sorry i don't mean to rant - just having a hard time dealing with these plums that call themselves estate agents.

Have just phoned them, the guy i need to speak to isn't in the office so i'll be getting a call back sometime today. Yeah Bl**dy right....this is a common saying from them and it never happens. If the agent wasn't 20miles away i'd go and park my bum in their office till they did something.

andrew-b

Hi,
Impossible for anyone to tell you what the problem really is from a forum . Whether the socket and lights are related is difficult to say for sure.
You need to be REALLY demanding that they sort this ASAP ...definitely this week. The other problems you've had/having whilst all very inconvenient and an annoyance won't kill you. This one could..whether by shock or fire.

The thing most people would do when a fuse blows is exactly what you've done in replacing it (i hope your using 5amp fuse wire suitable for lighting circuits and not higher or lower rated). However now it's gone multiple times can you please please leave the fuse out (if the lights are currently in working state i'd turn off the main switch on fuse box and pull the fuse out, then turn the main switch back on so you at least have power to sockets - however don't touch the socket you suspect as a problem) . You need to make do without lighting until you can at least get someone out. You should at least be able to use lamps in the power sockets with extension cables in the meantime. If you use candles obviously be really careful!

Keep pestering the agent and keep phoning until you get a result..tell them you believe it to be fatally dangerous. Don't tell them too much and you don't want to give them an excuse not to fix it...don't tell them you keep changing the fuse wire to keep the lights working else they'll think it can wait.

The landlord has a duty to ensure the electrics are safe. May be worth checking your rental agreement to see what responsibilities the agent holds too..usually in this sort of arrangement the landlord is paying the agent a management fee to manage the property in the landlord's absence.. though i'm not sure how far their responsibilities go.

In my view your quite within your rights to hold back some or all of your rent until they fix it...though tread carefully as you don't want to be chucked out!

Either way keep on pestering and make a real nuisance. Don't assume they'll call back ..phone them. Don't need to be nasty, stay calm and try be courteous but keep firm and make it clear you won't be palmed off. If they send someone ask to see their ID and check that they are indeed a suitable qualified electrician!

Let us know how you get on and keep us posted. Good luck!

red40

If you honestly dont feel as though you are getting anywhere with the agent or landlord another alternative is to contact your local Environmental Health section at the council and ask them to come along and inspect the property, they can take enforcement action to get your repairs carried out

This wouldn't be a quick fix as they have to issue enforcement notices and give the responsible person a set timescale to do the works, if they dont do the works the council can (should) step in and do the works to the required standards.

Jonesya

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle wrote: »

OK i am not trying to DIY this - simply changing the fuse wire - as you would in the other style where you'd need to put a new fuse in. I am simply asking for some insight into what is happening so i can understand it better.

Fuses are protective devices, designed to operate (eg. blow) if the current flowing through them exceeds a certain value, with the time taken to operate depending on the current flow. So for example, your 5A rewireable fuse can carry upto 5A forever, but if the current increases above 5A then after a period of time the fuse will operate/blow. How quickly the fuse operates depends on the current, if it were carrying 10A then it would operate in around 1 and 1/2 minutes, if it were carrying 45A then it would operate in 0.1 seconds.

Fuses are typically fitted to circuits to protect them, and you, against 2 things: over-current and to provide automatic disconnection of the supply (ADS) in the event of an earth fault.

Over-current protection is there to prevent the cables being damaged by carrying too high a current and hence getting too hot. The fuse should operate before any damage can be done to the cables and hence before the cables could get hot enough to melt insulation or start a fire. The over-current could be due to overloading the circuit or because of a fault between the live and neutral.

ADS is to prevent electric shock.It is to ensure that if there were an earth fault (short between live to earth), that the supply to the circuit would be disconnected eg. the fuse would operate. So for example, if you had an earth fault in a metal light fitting, while the fault was occuring a person touching the fitting could get a nasty shock. By having the fuse in the circuit, the fault current flowing to earth should cause the fuse to operate thereby disconnecting the supply and removing the danger quickly (in 0.4 seconds or less). Older lighting circuits may not be earthed but they should not have metalic fittings, or be feeding socket outlets.

So to come back your problem, the fact that the fuse keeps blowing indicates that there is a problem with the lighting circuit - the fuse is operating to protect the circuit and to ensure your safety. It's only a short length of wire so I'll have to speak for it:

STOP REPLACING ME! . GET AN ELECTRICIAN IN TO FIND AND FIX THE FAULT.