Got on wrong train fined £115 - anything I could have done?

MikeR371

A while back I went from Manchester to London on a Virgin train. I paid £85 for a ticket, this was not valid until 5pm (or something like that) for the return. My appointment finished early and I went to Euston and just got on the next train (the 4.30pm) without thinking. So the conductor then tells me I'm on the wrong train and should have waited until the 5.30pm one. So I said I'd get out at the next station and wait for the following train, but he says that's not until Stoke, I'm on the wrong train, so I have to buy a single for the train I'm on which cost me £115. I grumbled and paid him, thinking I would complain to Virgin, they would be reasonable and refund me. They made me send the tickets to them then said no, tough, on the wrong train so have to pay.

It just seems to me a fine of £115 is disproportionate just for getting on the train an hour too early. The train wasn't full so I wasn't taking up a seat someone else could have used, and to top it it was delayed 40 mins so I only got in 20 mins earlier than "my" train anyway.

It's all over now, but I'm just wondering if there was something I could have done. What if I had refused to pay the guard on the train? And then got out at Stoke and got on the following correct train? Would he physically have tried to stop me, called the police in advance, or what?

robt_2

MikeR371 wrote: »

A while back I went from Manchester to London on a Virgin train. I paid £85 for a ticket, this was not valid until 5pm (or something like that) for the return. My appointment finished early and I went to Euston and just got on the next train (the 4.30pm) without thinking. So the conductor then tells me I'm on the wrong train and should have waited until the 5.30pm one. So I said I'd get out at the next station and wait for the following train, but he says that's not until Stoke, I'm on the wrong train, so I have to buy a single for the train I'm on which cost me £115. I grumbled and paid him, thinking I would complain to Virgin, they would be reasonable and refund me. They made me send the tickets to them then said no, tough, on the wrong train so have to pay.

It just seems to me a fine of £115 is disproportionate just for getting on the train an hour too early. The train wasn't full so I wasn't taking up a seat someone else could have used, and to top it it was delayed 40 mins so I only got in 20 mins earlier than "my" train anyway.

It's all over now, but I'm just wondering if there was something I could have done. What if I had refused to pay the guard on the train? And then got out at Stoke and got on the following correct train? Would he physically have tried to stop me, called the police in advance, or what?

You didn't get a fine. You didn't have a valid ticket so were treated as if you didn't have one. Big difference between that and a fine.

Yes, he could have called the police, and you could be in court.

alanrowell

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076183/Good-Samaritan-threatened-arrest-organising-whip-round-pensioners-115-penalty-fare.html

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/specials/edinburgh/article6805503.ece

kwaks

Very surprised at this, even more so that you seem to have let it go with Virgin.

At most you should have been charged the difference between the off peak & peak time tickets, £30, certainly not the full cost of a single ticket.

As for Virgin HO not helping, they should have refunded at least the £85 ticket. Did they return said ticket to you? Was it only valid on that day? Because if they have not returned this UNUSED ticket to you then I cannot see how they can refuse a refund.

sweetstudent

Virgin Trains make you aware that you have to travel on the correct train, they even tell you before the train departs and that if you are not on the correct train you will have to pay a full fare. This is the OP's own fault and to be honest i have no sympathy.

MikeR371

Hey I'm not looking for sympathy here, I know I was on the wrong train. I'm just trying to understand what I could have done here to avoid paying a whopping amount for getting into Manchester 20 minutes early!

But this -

"they even tell you before the train departs and that if you are not on the correct train you will have to pay a full fare."

- certainly did not happen.

MORPH3US

MikeR371 wrote: »

But this -

"they even tell you before the train departs and that if you are not on the correct train you will have to pay a full fare."

- certainly did not happen.

I have been on a few trains and have heard this happen.

MikeR371

And also I think you're right there should have been at least a part-refund for the unused part of the original ticket. They never offered this. It was several months ago now, but I'll get back in contact with them.

Mids_Costcutter

Mike - it's always worth writing to them to try, but according to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage for Passengers (Condition 12):

"If a restriction applies and the ticket you
are using is not valid for the train you are travelling in, then:
(a) you will be liable to pay an excess fare (the difference between the price
paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket
available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel in that
train for the journey shown on the ticket); or
(b) in the case of some types of discounted tickets (as indicated in the notices and
publications) the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply".

Condition 2 refers to the liability to pay the full single fare or full return fare, which looks like what applies with your particular VT ticket.

In Conditions of Carriage there's also a section on your refund rights, which depend of course on the type of ticket and use you have made of it: looks like there you would have had the right to claim something back but the rule is that this should have been done within 28 days after the ticket expires.

The full document is at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

hothothot_3

this is strange because I actually did the same on virgin train and when the conducter came he just looked at my ticket (1 hour earlier train) he just kind of shrugged and walked on. The train was nearly empty at the time. I wish more common sense in humanity was applied at times in this world, not everything in life is strictly about enforcing fines on people. Fair enough if he had not paid anything at all, but Mike had a ticket paid already. Yes it is excessive, and thanks for the heads up, sharing these experiences helps others avoid similar fate.

wickyt

hothothot wrote: »

this is strange because I actually did the same on virgin train and when the conducter came he just looked at my ticket (1 hour earlier train) he just kind of shrugged and walked on. The train was nearly empty at the time. I wish more common sense in humanity was applied at times in this world, not everything in life is strictly about enforcing fines on people. Fair enough if he had not paid anything at all, but Mike had a ticket paid already. Yes it is excessive, and thanks for the heads up, sharing these experiences helps others avoid similar fate.

Agreed....the same happened to me. I was travelling on a pre-booked non-peak ticket and got on an earlier train as I'd arrived at the station much earlier than anticipated. Still a non-peak service and deserted. I was fined for the priviledge which I didn't dispute but I just wish that circumstances are sometimes taken into account.