XBOX 360 \ Small Claims Court Query

reech

H'lo!

Just had my third XBOX die; checking with Microsoft, it's gone past this three years for red ring of death, so they'd like me to pay. Unfortunately, the console won't be back by Christmas Day for the kids, so I've gone out and bought a basic Arcade one, so I've got a working console.

Can anyone advise me if they have taken any action against Microsoft at a Small Claims Court, and if I do so, am I likely to be able to claim all (or some) of the cost of the new console back?

I own a Wii console, and an old PS2; the old PS2 has been working for nearly 8 years and has never needed repair, the Wii for three, with no repair, so can I succesfully claim that the XBOX 360, under the same stress of normal useage, was not fit for sale, and so by doing get my costs back?

Just a query - I'd appreciate any pointers with anyone who's explored similar options!

J.

Marty_J

It seems doubtful. Your argument that your PS2 has been working for some years seems to have some merit on the surface, but the Xbox 360 is a much more complicated device, so one would expect it to have more problems. A Formula One car isn't as reliable as a Ford Fiesta for instance.

One could argue that Microsoft's design choices in the beginning caused it to have some inherent faults, and this is true as far as it goes. However, they did extend the warranty to three years at the cost of more than $1 billion.

Then you could try to claim the cost of the Xbox Arcade back, but unfortunately there's no law that says Microsoft have to ensure you have an Xbox 360 for Christmas.

You could give it a go though; three Xboxes in however many years does seem excessive. You might try going after the retailer who sold it rather than Microsoft. A brief letter to its CEO expressing your dissatisfaction might work wonders.

superscaper

I agree with Marty J, Microsoft have actually already exceeded their legal responsibility by extending the warranty. Your consumer rights in the Sale of Goods act are against the retailer you bought it off, not Microsoft.

i8change

Can anyone advise me if they have taken any action against Microsoft at a Small Claims Court, and if I do so, am I likely to be able to claim all (or some) of the cost of the new console back?

It appears that the supplier is responsible, not the manufacturer, and you would have to claim against them rather than Microsoft.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.


• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).


• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.


Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?

The Small Claims Court procedure provides the means to bring a claim, for up to £5000 (in England and Wales), at modest cost and without the need for a solicitor. Your local Citizens Advice Bureau can advise on how to make a claim.

I suppose you could use the graph on page 3 of this link to argue that without the RROD fault it would have matched the reliability of a similarly complex Sony PS3. There is a price differential though.

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_Xbox360_PS3_Wii_Reliability_0809.pdf

Marty_J

i8change wrote: »

I suppose you could use the graph on page 3 of this link to argue that without the RROD fault it would have matched the reliability of a similarly complex Sony PS3. There is a price differential though.

In the grand scheme of things, the PS3 isn't very reliable either, so I'm not so sure that would be a good thing to compare it to.

i8change

Originally Posted by Marty J
In the grand scheme of things, the PS3 isn't very reliable either, so I'm not so sure that would be a good thing to compare it to.

I suppose that is the crux of the matter and at this point in time it may not be possible to manufacture the latest generation of consoles to a standard of reliability comparable with the last generation. Especially if they are to remain both compact in design and priced to sell in volume.

I hope the Arcade version the OP has recently purchased is a Jasper model, as hopes are that they will be a bit more reliable than previous models.

http://www.360maniac.com/2009/07/28/xbox-360-jasper/

DrScotsman

Marty_J wrote: »

It seems doubtful. Your argument that your PS2 has been working for some years seems to have some merit on the surface, but the Xbox 360 is a much more complicated device, so one would expect it to have more problems. A Formula One car isn't as reliable as a Ford Fiesta for instance.

I think there's a difference here though, those two cars have different purposes which the consumer knows about. A spade is a spade, the Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3 are all games consoles. The average consumer is not technically knowledgeable, the average consumer is your mum who takes all of these things as she sees them; by the price and what games are available. She doesn't know which one is "more complicated" and she doesn't need to. If you think about it I bet a good portion of the intelligent British public think the Wii is more complicated. High Definition doesn't mean much to these people, but a motion sensing pointing remote? Which one sounds like more of a feat?

If anything you could argue that since the Xbox 360 was more expensive you would expect it to last longer than the Wii or the PS2. I expect a £50 electric can opener to last longer than a £5 hand one, even though the former is "more complicated"

reech

Thank you - some very useful points been brought up here.

I would expect an expensive piece of technology to be built to a standard that exceeds, not falls behind, the last iteration of similar items. I also have a 'normal XBOX' boxed up that I've taken out of my cupboard, and it still works fine as well. Microsoft may have gone 'above and beyond' with the warranty, but they are not honouring it, since I've already had a repair under it - at least, that's what the support droid I called was saying.

Well, I have a working one now, I'll see what I can do with the dead one, and if I manage to get a little money back using some of these suggestions, I'll let you know!

DrScotsman

Follow Marty J's advice first, a letter to the CEO of the retailer detailing the points here. Then if you still think you have the balls to go to small claims court, a letter before action to him. Microsoft aren't liable at all as it's been said.

Which retailer is it by the way? Did you pay on a credit card or visa debit card? This could open up some options that you probably wouldn't pursue, but are worth knowing about.

Marty_J

DrScotsman wrote: »

If anything you could argue that since the Xbox 360 was more expensive you would expect it to last longer than the Wii or the PS2. I expect a £50 electric can opener to last longer than a £5 hand one, even though the former is "more complicated"

The more complicated the device, the more potential points of failure. I would expect a regular manual can opener to far outlast an electrical one.

My mother in law has a washing machine from the 1950s in her attic and it still works just fine. Modern washing machines spin faster, carry more clothes, have drainage systems for adding and removing water, and are computer controlled. They won't last as long because they have more components and are more complicated devices (and quite often, they're not economical to repair).

DrScotsman

Marty_J wrote: »

The more complicated the device, the more potential points of failure. I would expect a regular manual can opener to far outlast an electrical one.

Well again I repeat that there is no way the regular consumer can gauge how "complicated" a games console is, and I stand by what I said earlier that a lot of people would say the Wii is more complicated. The consumer is not obligated to correctly educate themselves as to how complicated a console is when they buy it.

(In hindsight the can opener example was a bit daft, but it shows the difference between what someone can easily recognise as more likely to fail and what someone cannot recognise)