Gas and Elec costs

Hadrian

My energy provider (Eon) if one is "on-line" with then gives one a graph of gas/elec usage over the past year. In Sept '08 I had a new condenser boiler installed and in July '09 wall and loft insulation done. I'm a suspicious of claims for the savings when these two are mentioned but refering to the said graphs I am amazed. I live in a small 2 bed room semi in the Midlands. The graph shows that the boiler alone saved me 40% gas and the insulation plus the boiler saved me a total of 65% of my gas bill. I must say I have noticed that the house is 'warmer', the thermostat can now be set at 19/20c and for an hour less in the evening. One centimeter polystyrene sheeting behind the rads saves my money heating the walls! Can't think of anything else I do but my daughter always fills the kettle to the brim so much that when I tried to lift it it dropped to the floor! Kettles are dreadfully expensive to use so only fill for the cups you require. Same goes for vacuum cleaners. :j

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi Hadrian

Making those sorts of savings is tremendous. You really seem to have a good grip on energy efficiency.

Have you checked out some of the other energy saving tips on our website? In particular, the energy menu, interactive house and 10:10 campaign may be of interest. :cool:

Also, we have an Energy Efficiency team dedicated to helping people cut back on their usage. Give them a call if you feel you might benefit from their help; they will be happy to talk to you.

Ask for a copy of a booklet called '100 ways to save money by saving energy.' It's free and contains some very useful advice.

Hope this helps and well done on what you have already achieved. :beer:

Malc

Hadrian

Actually I don't now give much thought to energy conservation in my house, I do it automatically. I am shocked by the profligacy shown by my friends and relations towards their use of gas and electricity. As I said filling the kettle full when a cupful is needed. It took so long to get me a cup of tea at a friends house recently that I went into the kitchen to see what the h*ll was going on. One friend actually irons jeans!! 'Old fashioned' 100 watt lamp bulbs burning in each room unattended, TV's/PC's on with no-one watching. Personally I can't be bothered to 'cook' food, I simply sling it in the micro and Bob's your uncle. I had friends come who were horrified at that and spent 1 1/2 hours!! on their knees reading the cookers instruction manual! They never came back.:TGet a condenser boiler, that uses only the water you use there and then so NO big tank cooling down and heating up all day/night. 20 degrees is ample for sitting watching TV. etc etc. My gas/elec bill (on-line) is £33 a month, so you know what to do.:rotfl:

Cardew

Hadrian wrote: »

Actually I don't now give much thought to energy conservation in my house, I do it automatically. I am shocked by the profligacy shown by my friends and relations towards their use of gas and electricity. As I said filling the kettle full when a cupful is needed. It took so long to get me a cup of tea at a friends house recently that I went into the kitchen to see what the h*ll was going on. One friend actually irons jeans!! 'Old fashioned' 100 watt lamp bulbs burning in each room unattended, TV's/PC's on with no-one watching. Personally I can't be bothered to 'cook' food, I simply sling it in the micro and Bob's your uncle. I had friends come who were horrified at that and spent 1 1/2 hours!! on their knees reading the cookers instruction manual! They never came back.:TGet a condenser boiler, that uses only the water you use there and then so NO big tank cooling down and heating up all day/night. 20 degrees is ample for sitting watching TV. etc etc. My gas/elec bill (on-line) is £33 a month, so you know what to do.:rotfl:

Surely it is a matter of priorities!

20C is not ample for many people whilst watching TV.

Personally I am shocked that you think being not bothered to 'cook' and slinging it in the microwave is creditworthy!

You are confused between condenser boiler and combi boiler! All new boilers are condensing(with rare exceptions)

Big tanks of water do not lose a lot of heat, and the heat isn't lost as it heats up the fabric of the house.

IMO it is very bad advice to get a new boiler(if yours is working - no matter how old) as the cost to replace them will not be recovered - and modern boilers have a limited life and repairs cost a fortune.

Dave_save

I fitted a new combi condensing boiler last year. I previously had a 25 year old Ideal floor mounted conventional boiler which gave 25 years of trouble free heating and hot water. Since the replacement, my gas usage has dropped by around 15% pa, although I now heat the water with gas all year round, as opposed to previously in the summer months when I used an electric tank immersion heater. So I've also managed to shave some more off my electricity consumption.

Another benefit I've noticed is that the system is more responsive and heats the house much more quickly. So far (touch wood) all is well and I've had no problems.

Having gone through one full winter so far I find a 19/20 C setting is adequate for our needs.

Regarding using a microwave for cooking? Well I cannot see the logic in that. If that regime saves you money and that's the reason for not 'cooking' then somewhere you have got confused between energy saving and healthy living.

Cardew

Dave_save wrote: »

I fitted a new combi condensing boiler last year. I previously had a 25 year old Ideal floor mounted conventional boiler which gave 25 years of trouble free heating and hot water. Since the replacement, my gas usage has dropped by around 15% pa, although I now heat the water with gas all year round, as opposed to previously in the summer months when I used an electric tank immersion heater. So I've also managed to shave some more off my electricity consumption.

Another benefit I've noticed is that the system is more responsive and heats the house much more quickly. So far (touch wood) all is well and I've had no problems.



.

I don't doubt most people replacing a old boiler will find their gas consumption dropping by 15%. I am merely questioning the wisdom of the advice to "Get a condenser boiler"

Loads of threads on this, but this is an interesting quote:

Also that there is very little to go wrong with the old type boiler, but plenty to go wrong with the modern condensing boilers that are stuffed full of electronics and it seems that 10 years is a reasonable life expectancy.

The RoyalInstitution of Chartered Surveyors stated recently :

The average cost of installing one of these modern boilers is £1,720, but saves on average just £95 off people's gas bills." See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...erts-warn.html

Couple of threads here.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1376409&highlight=royal+institut ion+chartered

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1423841&highlight=royal+institut ion+chartered

IMO it makes no money saving sense to replace an old working boiler.

Regarding using a microwave for cooking? Well I cannot see the logic in that. If that regime saves you money and that's the reason for not 'cooking' then somewhere you have got confused between energy saving and healthy living

As I said above, it is a matter of priorities! and nothing to do with 'heathy living'! If the OP feels that saving electricity with a microwave is more important than using an oven to cook, then that is his prerogative. Many of us have different priorities!

markharding557

I love cooking,if this cost me a tenner more a week i wouldn't care.
microwave crap shove it up your ar**

mech_2

Cardew wrote: »

I don't doubt most people replacing a old boiler will find their gas consumption dropping by 15%. I am merely questioning the wisdom of the advice to "Get a condenser boiler"

Loads of threads on this, but this is an interesting quote:

Also that there is very little to go wrong with the old type boiler, but plenty to go wrong with the modern condensing boilers that are stuffed full of electronics and it seems that 10 years is a reasonable life expectancy.

The RoyalInstitution of Chartered Surveyors stated recently :

The average cost of installing one of these modern boilers is £1,720, but saves on average just £95 off people's gas bills."

I can't see their figure for savings as being realistic. Many people with old boilers must be paying the best part of £95 a year just for the pilot flame. Surely the true figure is at least £200 if you exclude boilers that fairly new anyway. Nobody is going to replace a condensing boiler with another condensing boiler on moneysaving grounds!

Plus the design life of modern boilers is 15 years, rather than 10. There are still plenty of fan-flued non-condensing boilers out there manufactured between 1995 and 2000 which still work and have just as much electronics in them as a new boiler.

IMO it makes no money saving sense to replace an old working boiler.

I think each case should be judged on its own merits. Not all old boilers are the same efficiency or have the same life expectancy. Payback will be quicker for a high gas user than for a low gas user. It may be more cost effective to replace a working boiler near the end of its life as part of a refurbishment than to wait a couple of years until it fails, risking damage to new decorating/tiling/etc in the process.

etc.

Cardew

mech wrote: »

I can't see their figure for savings as being realistic. Many people with old boilers must be paying the best part of £95 a year just for the pilot flame. Surely the true figure is at least £200 if you exclude boilers that fairly new anyway. .

Mech,

I really don't know what would be an average figure.

The £95 saving is the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors figure and I assume they did some research before coming up with that figure???

I would have thought that your figure of £200 would be on the high side.

The average gas consumption in UK is 20,500kWh and some of that consumption is for cooking and open gas fires.

That very roughly is £600 per year after standing charges and discounts.

There is plenty of evidence to state that whilst the very best condensing boilers have an efficiency of 91.5% in practice they don't achieve that as it requires perfect operation at a certain load.

My 21 year old boiler G rated has an efficiency of 65% and looking at the SEDBUK tables I don't think I have seen a boiler under 25 years old with a lower efficiency. My model was first produced 28 years ago.

So it seems to me that the latest boilers would have a 20% to 25% advantage in efficiency over a G rated boiler which would equate to £120 to £150 pa if £600 was spent on CH and HW. DaveSave above claims 15% saving.

The table in the SEDBUK website seems to indicate savings more in line with £95 than £200 if you take a 65% G rated boiler.

http://www.sedbuk.com/



Whilst your point about pilot lights is taken, the heat from this is not lost for much of the year.