Economy 7 day time rate

Pincher

Why is the day-time rate for Economy 7 more expensive per kWh than normal electricity tariff? They install exactly the same meter these days,
whether you are on Economy 7 or not. Does the meter reader charge more money for reading two numbers instead of one?

I think it all started with the "less than half price electricity" slogan.
If they charged the same day-time rate as non-Economy 7, then the off-peak rate is only half, not less than half rate. So they have to charge more during the day, to justify a slogan!

We are actually doing the electricity generators a favour by using their spare capacity at an inconvenient time, using more expensive storage heaters, when it's much simpler to switch on a fan heater when you want to; but we are being fleeced for it. Salesmen are still trying the line of using the washing overnight as an example. During the warmer months, most of your electricity is at the higher rate. You have to do a lot of overnight washing to cancel that out.

I want to go for ground source heating eventually, which needs cheap overnight electricity, but I don't want to pay over the odds during the day.

I believe this is a nice little campaign for Martin Lewis to stir up.

dogshome

Hi Pincher - I couldn't agree more
Way, way back in the days of state owned regional boards, I happened to do business with the then Eastern Electricity.
Part of the ground floor of thier head office had been converted to a showroom for E7 electric heating. They offered a deal to housebuilders that if they built all-electric houses with E7, then they would not be charged by the Board for the power connectiions to the estate , and I can clearly remember seeing the tariff which offered Daytime power at the Standard rate with a super cheap rate overnight.

Save-money-by-doing-the-washing-and-dishes-overnight is now a myth. These machines used to have mechanical controls whereby you could set the programme, and then the machine would run whenever the power was turned on
However these appliances now have digital controls, the power must be on to set the programme and if it is then switched off, the machine loses it's memory and re-sets to zero

Premier_2

It's not always.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1207887

Haarlem

dogshome wrote: »

Save-money-by-doing-the-washing-and-dishes-overnight is now a myth. These machines used to have mechanical controls whereby you could set the programme, and then the machine would run whenever the power was turned on
However these appliances now have digital controls, the power must be on to set the programme and if it is then switched off, the machine loses it's memory and re-sets to zero

Our washing machine and tumble dryer have electronic controls and do not loose their settings when controlled by a time switch.

E7 is not for everyone, and you should not let it rule your life if it does not fit in with your lifestyle. I do feel that many dismiss E7 without understanding it, and taking advantage of it where they can.

However I am on a teleswitch and get the cheaper rate until 08.00 all the year round. I have gas central heating. We use a timeswitch for the washer and dryer.(Only using the dryer when we cannot put the washing outside. We get up at 06.00, and so shower (electric shower) and have breakfast before 08.00. Obviously things like the fridge freezer, central heating pump etc run at the cheap rate until 08.00.

A few days ago I reviewed the deal from my supplier using actual consumption, and 47% was at the low rate. You obviously use more low rate units between April - September. Whilst not saving a fortune, there is a saving, even with gas heating.

One of the benefits of smart metering is that suppliers will offer more "time of day tariffs", with far more bands than the 2 of E7, so maybe in the future more will be taking advantage of cheaper rates at various times of the day.

You are correct in saying the Electricity Boards greatly reduced connection charges for all electric estates. Not unreasonable when you consider the substantial capital investment involved, especially if the resultant revenue was low from a gas estate.

Pincher

Hi dogshome.

I only remember 30 years back, and have never seen day-time rate the same as normal tariff.

I think you are describing a separate ring main that the meter switches on at night. We just had mechanical timers for the electricity sockets, the kind you push pins into the inner and outer ring of holes for on/off. The washing machines had mechanical dials, so you just have to turn it to A, or whatever program you wanted, and it will start working when the socket comes on. These days, it's simplest to buy a machine with a delay function. The separate ring main is indeed a pain to buy appliances for.

After further reflection, I realised that EVERYBODY will switch to Economy 7 if the day-time rate is the same as normal tariff, because you simply get cheaper electricity for seven hours at night, whether you use it or not. Literally overnight, the electricity companies will lose hundred of millions a year in revenue.

It costs the same amount of fuel to generate 1kWh of electricity during the day as it does at night, but they sell it for half price at night.
So if everybody switched to Economy 7, they will be selling a lot more electricity at half price, but still pay the same for fuel to generate them. Big loser for the electricity company.

So what they want is just enough customers using night time electricity to keep the generators ticking over off-peak, but not too many. They inconvenience you 365 days a year, by baiting you with a half price tariff, which you only benefit from for four cold months of the year (assume no Gas Central Heating), and then fleece you during the day, EVERY day of the year.

If everybody had a simple peak rate and off-peak rate, householders will naturally time shift their electricity consumption as much as they can.
This will reduce peak electricity demand, and we will need fewer power plants. Good for the countryside, saves money for consumers.

We need to get ready for electric car re-charging overnight, ground source heat pump, as well as traditional storage heating. I want a simple off-peak rate, without increasing my day-time rate.

Unfortunately, I suspect off-peak rate will be only 20% off day-rate in that case.

stickman

Pincher wrote: »

Hi dogshome.

I only remember 30 years back, and have never seen day-time rate the same as normal tariff.

I think you are describing a separate ring main that the meter switches on at night. We just had mechanical timers for the electricity sockets, the kind you push pins into the inner and outer ring of holes for on/off. The washing machines had mechanical dials, so you just have to turn it to A, or whatever program you wanted, and it will start working when the socket comes on. These days, it's simplest to buy a machine with a delay function. The separate ring main is indeed a pain to buy appliances for.

After further reflection, I realised that EVERYBODY will switch to Economy 7 if the day-time rate is the same as normal tariff, because you simply get cheaper electricity for seven hours at night, whether you use it or not. Literally overnight, the electricity companies will lose hundred of millions a year in revenue.

It costs the same amount of fuel to generate 1kWh of electricity during the day as it does at night, but they sell it for half price at night.
So if everybody switched to Economy 7, they will be selling a lot more electricity at half price, but still pay the same for fuel to generate them. Big loser for the electricity company.

So what they want is just enough customers using night time electricity to keep the generators ticking over off-peak, but not too many. They inconvenience you 365 days a year, by baiting you with a half price tariff, which you only benefit from for four cold months of the year (assume no Gas Central Heating), and then fleece you during the day, EVERY day of the year.

If everybody had a simple peak rate and off-peak rate, householders will naturally time shift their electricity consumption as much as they can.
This will reduce peak electricity demand, and we will need fewer power plants. Good for the countryside, saves money for consumers.

We need to get ready for electric car re-charging overnight, ground source heat pump, as well as traditional storage heating. I want a simple off-peak rate, without increasing my day-time rate.

Unfortunately, I suspect off-peak rate will be only 20% off day-rate in that case.

Great post. Thanks. I am on E7 and was thinking if it would be cheaper going on to standard tarriff with other type of heaters with timers. Realise that I would only have heat when they were on but at least its me chosing when and for how long.
Would going on to standard tarriff be cheaper over the year, as opposed to cheaper off peak E7 night time but with higher than standard daytime tarriff. Based on average usage for 3 bed semi.

losgiganteskid

Pincher wrote: »

Why is the day-time rate for Economy 7 more expensive per kWh than normal electricity tariff?

Surely if the economy 7 daytime rate was the same as the normal daytime tariff , everyone in the Country would want economy 7 !!

JennyR68

I have recently come of E7, I used to religiously put my timer on (machine has up to 9 hr delay) and use the washing machine every night, which for a family of 5 is not always easy to just do one load a day. Whenever I put an extra load on during the day I felt guilty! I can't believe I went through the hassle when I plugged my machine into the usage monitor and realise it uses 0.6kwh per 30c wash. Big difference to the night time load!!!