Some Advice regarding suspension?

Anihilator

shauniebabe wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering if someone could give me some advice for my MIL!
Its slightly complicated so apologies for the long post. She works for a company that just over a year ago gave everyone 90 days notice and offered voluntary. Some people took it and as such the shop decided to stay open. She has been there 14 years and is one of only 2 staff left who is not family of the owner.

None of this is relevant.

Since then the shop has continued to do Business but sales are slowish due to the stock not being as good as it was and a Primark opening nearby. Over the last 3 months the MIL has felt victimised and bullied in that the owner/manageress would say to her "its sad we wont be here next xmas" and similar whilst also doing sly things like having a works night out and saying no point asking you as you wont come on a saturday or making toast and offering everyone apart from the MIL.

Again why is this relevant? If the business is struggling and unlikely to make it to next Xmas then it seems a fair comment.

Re the Xmas party? Is it true she won't go on saturdays? If so why is she unhappy. Or is she one of these unsociable sorts who won't go but demands that she be given a chance to ruin everyone elses enjoyment by getting an input. As for toast. Maybe time to grow up. Could be a 101 reasons for this.

Approx 3 weeks ago she asked the MIL if she wanted to go part time as she cares for her father but weve recently arranged care for this so the MIL said no.

Again not sure why you feel this is relevant. The Employer offered to help a carer.

Yesterday she got into work and the owner said she wanted to check everyones backs which she agreed. She had her bag checked and in the bag was 3 items that she purchased numerous weeks ago. She was accused of stealing as she pointed out shed paid for it and told her roughky when it was ( she remembers it was a dinnertime 5/6 wks ago as she needed change for the phone). The owner had a rant at her about how she couldnt believe that the MIL would steal from her and that she was one of the most trusted staff. She also said that over the last few years shes kept her on with medical and home problems when she could of let her go. She was later given the items back.

See it from the employers point of view. Your mother has company stock in her bag which she cant account for in any way.

This morning she went into work and at 10 o clock was took in the back office and asked to look in the bag again. The same items were in there and the owner said she had asked the staff and no one remembered serving her with them. She regularly purchases from the shop 4/5 times a week. The owner then told her to go home and ring later.

Again this is unfortunate but your MIL really needs to prove she bought these items.

The MIL has medical issues (including mental issues) and did not phone, instead spending the time in the Drs/Hospital after having a "turn". She returned from work to find a note written on a scrap of paper telling her not to come in and to return Friday at 10 am for a meeting that she can bring a work colleague to.

Seems reasonable to me. at most the wording of the letter may give her a technicality

Obviously we can see she has been suspended pending a investigation, however we know that it has been done to get out of paying any redundancy. Especially seeing as she overheard the owner teling her brother that she was being finished on xmas eve as she had to have the biggest redundancy pay out!

You "know". Any proof? Hope so otherwise it could be seen to be you creating trouble and spreading rumours

So i was wondering if anyone could give any advice. She is going to see a soliciter tomorrow to see were she stands but we would like either a family member or soliciter to be allowed in at the meeting if only for health reasons!

You can ask but have no right. She is allowed a colleague (or union rep). No company is likely to allow a solicitor or family member

Any Advice?

Advice. Do your best to prove she bought those goods and forget the rest. Without proof of purchase it comes down to the balance of probabilities as to whether she stole them or bought them. On the balance of it with no proof of purchase and no one recollecting selling them to her she may have a bit of trouble on her hands. You will want to find out exactly what the colleagues were asked and said when asked about it and hope there is enough vagueness.

DVardysShadow

Anihilator wrote: »

Advice. Do your best to prove she bought those goods and forget the rest. Without proof of purchase it comes down to the balance of probabilities as to whether she stole them or bought them. On the balance of it with no proof of purchase and no one recollecting selling them to her she may have a bit of trouble on her hands. You will want to find out exactly what the colleagues were asked and said when asked about it and hope there is enough vagueness.

Unless the items are exclusive to the store, it would be a bit rich to base an accusation of theft on not having a receipt and no one remembering selling them. Particularly after having taken 2 dips into her bag

Anihilator

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Unless the items are exclusive to the store, it would be a bit rich to base an accusation of theft on not having a receipt and no one remembering selling them. Particularly after having taken 2 dips into her bag

I take it to be she has already admitted the shop is the source of the goods.

I think it would be a very harsh dismissal to make but it could be a very hard one to defend or overturn without evidence especially if the rest of the staff have worded it to the effect they didnt sell her these goods as opposed to not having any idea if they did.

I don't think the MIL should take the stance she has so far though as running in with accusations galore will make them far more likely to go after her.

CMoore

Hi Shauniebabe.

This is the first time I have posted but your situation regarding your MIL, prompted me to post.

Whilst a lot of the posts on this forum are very anti employer, I do not feel that your situation is necessarily that and I also feel that Annihilator's posts are a bit extreme.

Assuming that your MIL has had no recent formal disciplinaries against her and that she has always bought goods from her employers and that this has never been an issue then I feel this smacks strongly of potential Constructive Dismissal. If your MIL has not changed her behaviour and has always 'acted' in the same manner then she can not be criticised as they continued to employ her under these conditions. Her employer cannot expect her to change. Likewise they cannot change their expectations

Your MIL's medical history is just that, history, she has worked there for 14 years and her employers are well aware of her situation and have continued to employ her.

I would stop bringing up her medical history, as it is history if no recent changes that have effected her work. Your MIL needs to deal with the upcoming meeting. If she is fit to work then she is fit to attend a meeting. If she is not fit to attend a meeting then it prompts the question is she fit to work.....

Don't make this any more complicated than it is - the meeting needs to take place before you know the employer's intention and can seek advice about taking this further.

Bear in mind, however, that whilst this seems to be wrong, to put it right will involve your MIL probably going to an Industrial Tribunal.

shauniebabe

Wells she went in today for the meeting and was sacked so we are now going to take things further with the help of acas, the cab or a soliciter.

Thanks for your help!

Anihilator

shauniebabe wrote: »

Wells she went in today for the meeting and was sacked so we are now going to take things further with the help of acas, the cab or a soliciter.

Thanks for your help!

No one will touch it until you have followed the proper procedures. i.e Appeal.

shauniebabe

Thats the point Annhilator. We are now getting some advice on the next stage as we have no idea whether there is a appeals process or whether we ahve to go to a tribunal or through acass. Steps havent been followed and we are now going to take it further, including possible action for slander/defamation of character!

Any advice would be greatly recieved!

rachyrach2k

Does the shop have CCTV? If so, this may prove whether your MIL did or did not steal the goods. Showly it would show her being served by a member of staff. This really needs to be looked into

hartcjhart

if the goods were sold the transaction would have gone through the till,so surely although no receipt was given the purchase would still show on the till roll.However now that she has been dismissed access to that will be nigh on impossiblle

at the moment forget the slander/defamation that is a totally different matter,
she will have to go the the tribunal claiming for 'unfair dismissal' and let that run it's course

with a bit of luck your MIL will win and get even more than she would have with just redundancy,although I feel their might be an offer made before the case is heard

ckerrd

shauniebabe wrote: »

Thats the point Annhilator. We are now getting some advice on the next stage as we have no idea whether there is a appeals process or whether we ahve to go to a tribunal or through acass. Steps havent been followed and we are now going to take it further, including possible action for slander/defamation of character!

Any advice would be greatly recieved!

Did you contact ACAS as advised earlier?

This from their website An employee who has had a disciplinary decision made against them has the right to appeal.

What you need to find out from her (former) employer is their appeals procedure

EDIT - she cannot go to an employment tribunal until all internal avenues have been exhausted