Barclays Resolve Loan

championless

Hi All

Just wondering if anyone can help? I CCA'd Barclays recently to obtain a copy of the CCA. They did not provide it and replied with terms and conditions and an unsigned credit agreement.

They did not send this within the required time either so i sent this:

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.


I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully


They then replied with a letter basically saying that what they've sent is enough under the act (i can't post links here as a new user for some reason, but pictures are available of the letters if needed)

They have still not provided me with a signed credit agreement but have sent this and a debt collection letter & issued a default shortly after. Surely this is breaking the law, since they are unable to provide me with a true signed copy? Surely they can't issue a default though if the account's in dispute? What if they record it on my credit record?

The telephone calls have now started up again and i was just wondering if anyone can suggest a next step?

I'm so worried about this and just want to get it sorted. Please please please, can anyone help?

Thanks
championless

DarkConvict

To the DCA you can send these letters

CCA Sold/Colelcted whilst in dispute - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=26867923#post26867923

DCA harassment - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=11571485&postcount=4

As to Barclays, i am not to sure what to send when they decided to ignore the CCA act and place defaults and begin attempts to collect the debt. All i can suggest is you list the terms that are required on the CCA and show that the CCA they sent do not meet all the requirements, then lodge a formal complaint with Barclays. If they continue lodge a formal complaint against them with the OFT.
The only other letter to send is this - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=26867819#post26867819 - but you as above have already sent something similar.

championless

I'm right in thinking that they're have to send a signed copy? They haven't complied with my request have they? Someone on another forum said the following and i'm so confused:

Re the Default, the a/c may not be in default because they have complied with the requirements imposed by CCA1974, by sending you their T&C's.

Quote:
..... since they are unable to provide me with a true signed copy?
Have they said this ?

Normally, they are unwilling to send out the copy agreement, but this is very different to being unable.

stapeley

There are "test" cases before the High Court in Manchester to determine these very points . A decision is not due till mid Jan 2010. Hopefully it will rule that a copy of the signed CCA must be sent on request .And failure to do so means debt is unenforceable ,as it has been ruled in some county courts.

championless

I was just wondering if anyone can help me. I've received a default for this and they are now threatening court action. Calls from Barclays are coming in several times a day. I ask them to communicate with me via phone but they refuse and tell me calls will continue. Please can someone help me? Surely there must be something i can do. I'm really worried that i'll be taken to court. Don't they have to prove that i signed an agreement? Help help help?!

GeorgeUK

Lets start at the beginning here.

You send a CCA request under s.77/78 of the CCA74. They do not need to provide a signed copy of the agreement but can supply a reproduction, without the signatures.

To see if they have a copy of the signed agreement, i would send a subject access request (SAR-cost £10). This under the Data Protection Act allows you to a copy of all data they hold on you including documentation - this would include the original CCA. Once you get this you can see if it is an enforcable agreement or not.

Don't forget that it is only agreements made before 6th April 2007 that the enforcability argument can be used for.

When you say you have asked them to not call, did you do this in writing or over the phone? There are template letters available to stop the calls on the board if you need them.

danthemoneysavingman

I would refer you to the recent high court ruling on this very subject, however...

To quote from roundtownnews. co .uk website:
"The CMCs aim in each case was to establish that the customer’s original loan agreement is ‘unenforceable’. The most common and simplest tactic used by the CMCs has been to demand to see a copy of the client’s original loan agreement from the lender. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, if the lender cannot provide a copy within 12 days, the debt becomes ‘unenforceable’.
The uncertainty caused by this situation resulted in one case being referred up from the County Court to the High Court in order to clarify the legal position. The case involved Mr Phillip McGuffick, who was seeking to have his £17,034 personal loan from RBS declared unenforceable. The case was heard on the basis that both sides agreed that the loan was unenforceable and the judge was asked to decide what this meant. Mr Justice Flaux ruled: “Although the [Consumer Credit Act] may render the agreement unenforceable, the agreement remains a valid and subsisting contract and rights and obligations under it continue to exist”."


Don't know where this would leave you. I suggest you use the tools on this website as laid out by DarkConvict above.

HTH

championless

So is my account still in dispute if they've supplied an unsigned copy? Can i still challenge in light of the recent test case? Does the blank agreement they sent contain all of the prescribed terms needed? Is there anything i can do?

DarkConvict

This applies to Pre-April 2007 CCA Debts

Basically it means if they have no correct CCA agreement, then a judge cannot rule to grant a CCJ for the money owed.

However, even if they do not have a valid CCA, they can continue to mark your credit file for missed payments, apply defaults and send demands for payment.What you can do back is ignore the debt for 6 years for it to go statute barred. However you won't get any credit/struggle to get it as they can continue to report correct information that you have not paid your balance. Only after 6 years would the debt then fall off your report.

niccatw

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that. I'd suggest giving Citizen's Advice, CCCS or PayPlan a call though, as they will be able to give advice specific to your situation. Other than that, I'd say do as GeorgeUK and DArk Convict suggested.

Good luck