Recall issues

Raggs_2

He spends a fair bit of time in our flat, so he'll never get over the space issue, and whilst he seems content in the flat (no destructive behaviours even from the start), he does have toys to play with (and occassionally a cat to irritate), and someone around every few hours at most.

Usually when we take him out we walk nicely to the point where I'm comfortable for him to go free (trails basically), and off he goes to do his own thing. Generally grab a stick, and then ask for it to be thrown (I say stick, he goes for the largest thing he can carry/drag, sometimes 3 metres of branch). Then off we wander, him enjoying himself around the path, chasing the stick, lying in puddles (there's no happier dog than one who's allowed to lie in puddles) etc etc, and then he either gets a smell or spots something up on the mountain. Usually at this point a simple call of his name grabs his attention back and we return to normal, but on occassion he doesn't even look round, just goes off and up.

I guess it's basically a case of therefore increasing excitement and importance everytime we use his name for attention, and reward for then carrying out whatever command follows it. Simple in practice, but when your dog takes 3-10 seconds on any command as he decides whether it's worth it or not, things become more prolonged, it's amazing really, you can tell him to sit, he'll run 15 meters away, pick up his stick, run back, drop it, look around and then sit, he remembers what he needs to do, it's just he has more pressing matters before he can get around to your request.

sarabe

The more independant breeds are a challenge for sure.

I have a sighthound, he's about the same age as your Louis and do you know I haven't even taught him to sit yet. It isn't a priority but being reliable off lead is because he needs to run.

A lot of the 'obedience' that we do with our dogs can be quite oppressive. Not saying that we shouldn't do it just that we should consider what the dog gets out of it.

A classic example is the sit and wait for dinner that we insist on. It's a great way to teach a wait BUT in the natural world when the dog has to hunt or scavenge for his meal the rabbit isn't going to stop and say to the dog "sit.... waaaait.... okay now you can catch me.

I haven't asked for a wait before eating for years now. My dogs do all have a brilliant wait though including the hound.

I guess it's basically a case of therefore increasing excitement and importance everytime we use his name for attention, and reward for then carrying out whatever command follows it. Simple in practice, but when your dog takes 3-10 seconds on any command as he decides whether it's worth it or not, things become more prolonged, it's amazing really, you can tell him to sit, he'll run 15 meters away, pick up his stick, run back, drop it, look around and then sit, he remembers what he needs to do, it's just he has more pressing matters before he can get around to your request.

You need to have ownership of said stick before asking him to do something for you.

I wouldn't recommend sticks as ideal playthings as they can be dangerous plus because there is a plentiful supply it can make it difficult for you to ensure that the reward is powerful enough to motivate him to stay with you. However if that is what floats his boat.... the best rewards are the ones that the dog chooses.

The method of hand feeding that I mentioned in the other post is described in more depth here. http://www.naturaldogblog.com/blog/2007/08/natural-dog-training-fundamentals-how-to-relax-and-attract-your-dog-using-pushing/

You'll find loads on that site that may give you some ideas.

Raggs_2

Just wrote a reasonable reply, and then it tried to claim I wasn't logged in, damn machines!

Anyway, waiting for food is generally just a few seconds, basically enough time for us to get out of the way.

Just been out for a quick walk, and now it's breakfast time, but I think I may read the article first, I'll be back with comments/questions .

Raggs_2

Well a few days have passed, I attempted the hand feeding, and it seemed to go ok, until he decided that something else was far more interesting (just a smell at first). And then decided to visit where my OH works (live on a kibbutz, so it's all quite close), she wasn't in, and then came back to see what I was upto.

So, not a great start, even a hungry dog that's only eaten a quarter of his breakfast decides that just wandering off is better than food.

Still, on the plus side, trying a few of my own things (and things I should have been doing before, been a little lax), seems to be helping a little. Two instances today looked like he was going to disappear on the mountain, and both times we got his attention and he came back to calls.

And just because I was so chuffed when I saw it, I'm going to boast a little. He wandered up to the cats bowl, still with a small piece of fresh chicken in, and no cat, and just looked at it, until he decided to leave it. Then a little later, when the cat had left it's food too long and I put it in his bowl, the cat came up to eat as well, and they both had their heads in together, and not a single action of complaint from the dog (he could probably bite her in two if he chose to). So cute to see, and so nice too know.

cheepskate_2

ahh, the dreaded " my dog does not recall and nothing works" senario.

Welcome to my world.

we have a 10m old cocker. Now tell me if i'm wrong, but according to all the sites i go on cockers are classed as one of the best 1st time dog owner dogs.

Yeah tell that to ours, like yours, when she decides to go, nothing works.

I [STRIKE]have [/STRIKE]had no luck like you in recall. That is until i started whistle training her. Not the silent dog whistle but the loud shrill whistles.
I started in the house , when she was naturally comming to me , called and blew the whistle with a huge amount of praise and a bit of cooked liver. Beleive me not it took her about 3 tries and she has perfected it.

You have to go very slowly so at the moment we have only progressed outside the house/door with no or very little distractions. I am taking it so slowly as i dont want to have a fail and maybe set her back or that she wont cvome to the whistle.

Even when she is full pelt running to see dad when he comes home from work, she does the most amazing about turn when she hears that whistle.

Yesterday, she got out :shhh:and was having a nosey down the street when we realised. Off dad goes to shout her, but hey she's more interested in whats about. 1 toot on the whisle and she came like a bullet.

I am not saying this is going to woirk when there is distractions, but all seems good . This is from a dog who could have been 3 feet away from you and just blanked your recall outside.

There are some good sites to read up on it about, but i think the main thing is - the whistle cannot fail- in that when training you can only use the whislte when they are going to do what you want anyway, and instil in them that this is a now situation.

Another little side note to remember if going down this route is the whistle is a working aid and not a toy, so must in this situation only be used when training and only when you know theat the response will be possitive.

We really only started th whistle as a last resort, thinking maybe the loud noise will just nudge her out of her tunnel vision when off lead
P.s , just so you know our dog is like yours in the house and is fab on commands and learning new things, just the blasted recall is the problem

ali-t

My staffy used to be a bit like that as a pup and I would hide behind trees as she went frantic looking for me when she eventually realised I wasn't there. It didn't take too long to change her behaviour.

Running away in the opposite direction works with my rotty but it is a bit unerving when you hear him thundering up behind you at great speed like a racehorse praying he isn't going to jump and deck me.

Raggs_2

Doesn't work with Louis, I'm willing to bet if I could watch him for the 25 minutes he disappeared for he wouldn't be panicking at any point. He will just as happily turn his back and walk away from me, to go and lie in a puddle 100 yards back (and round a corner), then catch up a few minutes later (or happily trot past if I hide).

We've been overusing his name recently, and I suspect this is why it's lost its impact in terms of gaining his attention. Still working on that now, and in a brief span of time that's passed, it seems to be working.

hethmar

Sorry, only read first posting as Im supposed to be working but - this boy disppearing - has he been neutered?

Raksha

Two words - long line! If he keeps learning he can ignore you, you will have to go right back to square one and re teach the recall. If he does has some marama sheepdog in him, then you are also fighting against the independant streak,s o it's going to be a long hard slog

Raggs_2

I think the long line is definitely on the possibles list, but again there is an issue, though it's with my behaviour, though it's certainly changeable. He often travels 100-200 meters along the path to go and lie in the next puddle, or will stay in a puddle whilst I go on my merry way. But this is easily adaptable.

He's not castrated, and I currently see no real reason for him to be. He behaves very well with other dogs, male and female, new faces and old (apart from ones that have attacked him, but even those he seems to forgive after a week of not seeing each other). No mounting behaviour except for when we first got him at 6 months, that ended shortly after, and no signs of returning a year later. There are a lot of females about, though I suspect they are all done, since we also have a fair few intact males about, and there's no day long barking/howling occurences.

The wandering is almost certainly not for a female, and I suspect entirely due to breed (maremma).

Gotta cut it short.