Light/noise related problems & our local council

CuriousMeerkat

I have been renting a first floor flat for around 3 months. It has a balcony which looks over a canal, and across the other side there is an old building with the upper floors converted into offices. Below these, on the ground floor, there was an empty area that used to be a club/private members bar. The distance between the two buildings is probably 15-20 metres. The front door to the premises is directly in front of the balcony off the living room.

This past week, the bar has sadly re-opened. It appears to have a license for music (including live bands) and alcohol until midnight Mon-Thurs & Sunday, and 2am Friday & Saturday. This has had the following effects:

1. They have lights on the front of the building that shine directly at our flat.
2. Anytime a customer enters or leaves the building, the door slams shut, and this is loud enough to hear in both our living room and bedroom (through double glazing, and my hearing is awful).
3. Those customers that choose to smoke hang around right outside the front door. They tend to be drunk and loud.

During the week it has been opened (and bearing in mind that it is freezing), there have been enough loud drunks outside smoking to be a nuisance. Come next summer when it will hopefully be warmer, and the club/bar will be more well known, there could be huge numbers of people out there.

I don't know what to do from here. I can't understand how the business got such a license in such a residential area. We are part of a block of about 30, with another identical block next to ours. Over the canal next to the bar there is another block of flats.

Are there any courses of action I can take? I most likely wouldn't have moved here if I knew it would be so noisy (it was very peaceful for the first three months). The rent that we pay reflects how nice the flat is, and how nice it is to have a balcony overlooking a canal in a quiet area. This is not the case anymore. We are probably either going to move or negotiate a lower rent when our tenancy is up. Can we get a reduction in council tax? We are in the correct band currently, but do these new circumstances allow us to be reassessed? Can the council do anything about the lights or noise?

It has annoyed me, but if I owned the property I would be furious!

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Fire_Fox

A friend of mine had very similar issues with a licensed premises, noise pollution and deliberate shining of a floodlight into the flats (in order to scupper a CCTV camera). Our community group has written letters/ attended meetings but we found licensing at the council particularly unhelpful. :mad: However we had a lot of success dealing with Environmental Health and with the Licensing Officer from our local police force.

You will need to keep a timed and dated diary of the noise/ light/ disturbance - the more residents you get to complain to EH (in writing or via e-mail NOT phone) the quicker you will get results so stick a note up in your communal hall with their contact details. In our case Environmental Health got the place closed down whilst sound proofing was installed, and more recently the police got it closed down twice more whilst they worked on an 'action plan' to retrain doorstaff as they are obviously key to keeping the drunks under control.

In the short term I highly recommend wax ear plugs (not foam) - I have chronic insomnia and these are both comfortable and effective.

SkipE

First thing you need to do is get in touch with the Licensing Dept and find out what the permitted hours and and if there are any conditions. This way you can keep an eye out and if they are breaching them you can notify the police licensing officer and licensing enforcement officer.

Just as a side note the licensing Dept are neutral. They only issues licences if no one objects to them regardless of their own opinion. Its the law. It may appear to be unhelpful when you are having to put up with all the noise and carry on but they cant stop it. They can only enforce the existing licence.

If you are in a block of flats start talking to your neighbours and putting together your concerns. You can 'Review' a licence at any time but you must provide evidence. The more of you who get together the better. Licensing Dept can help you with this. To review the licnece means just that it will be called into question.

speak to Env Health and open a case with them. They are a responsible body under the Licensing Act and have lots of powers available to them.

Good luck!!
If you need any help just pm me.

lincroft1710

As the premises opposite had previously been a club, this may already be reflected in the Council Tax band. It is still worth pursuing but no guarantee there would necessarily be a reduction forthcoming.

AliceBanned

Definitely go via Environmental Health officer and have the license reviewed. It may be different owners to the previous club, and they may not even be adhering to their licence so this also needs to be checked. If they are found to be acting outside the terms of their licence I believe they can be closed down on the spot by the police.

As it is in a residential area it sounds like the original hours you quoted, if they are correct, are not acceptable; live music 7 nights a week?! That is unusual and can be changed with enough public demand. Even if no one else is willing to complain, your request to change the conditions of the licence should be heard at the Council; the Licensing Act allows for this to ensure the public are protected.

Fire_Fox

SkipE wrote: »

Just as a side note the licensing Dept are neutral. They only issues licences if no one objects to them regardless of their own opinion. Its the law. It may appear to be unhelpful when you are having to put up with all the noise and carry on but they cant stop it. They can only enforce the existing licence.

If you are in a block of flats start talking to your neighbours and putting together your concerns. You can 'Review' a licence at any time but you must provide evidence. The more of you who get together the better. Licensing Dept can help you with this. To review the licnece means just that it will be called into question.

It isn't my experience that Licensing Panels are neutral. I can't say I found the Licensing Department at the council particularly impressive either, they refused to provide general guidance on licensing conditions and the Licensing Act, their summaries of evidence were inaccurate, they sent the wrong information to the wrong people, and they were totally disorganised on the day.

The police actually put forward for a review of this licensed premises (not for the first time) and asked for the license to be revoked entirely, which I understand they only do in the most extreme circumstances. The review was based on CCTV evidence and statements by police officers of serious breaches of all four licensing conditions, deliberate flouting of specific conditions attached to that premises license as well as clear evidence of staff being involved in illegal activities.

I saw much of the CCTV footage as I wrote the covering letter for the community group's file of evidence, and it was absolutely damning. In the hearing, which I attended, the licensed premises were allowed to virtually call a police officer a liar! The panel seemed far more concerned about the effect on the business than the effect on residents or policing. The premises were closed for just one month, only so that they could put together an 'action plan' (which had previously been tried and failed). Nothing changed and soon afterwards they were ordered to close for a third time by the police.

There is obviously a lot of NIMBYism when residents complain about a premises, but I think it speaks volumes that this action was initiated the police using their own evidence and they asked for the license to be revoked completely.

CuriousMeerkat

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I am keeping a diary on what we are experiencing. The door slamming is so annoying. With the TV on you don't notice it. But both my girlfriend I have to study when not working, and trying to concentrate proves very difficult when the silence is constantly broken.

I am about to compose an email to our letting agent to give them and the landlord advance notice of our intentions to complain to the council. I have also printed out letters to let my neighbours know my concerns, and detailing what they can do if they feel the same.

Once I've received a response from our letting agent, I am going to send my complaint letter to the EH Department and hand deliver the neighbour letters. As it is early days, there isn't much for our diary at the moment.

That seems like a fair course of action doesn't it? Do you think it is worth approaching the owner/manager of the bar directly?

SkipE

Firefox, I said the Licensing Dept are to remain neutral not the panel\committee. They are a law to themselves !! The Panel are made up of Cllrs and often do not take on board whats put before them for fear of being challenged on appeal! Its rubbish, they are there to protect the people.

Im sorry you had a bad experience with your Licensing Dept. It can be so fraustrating when your life is affected and dominated by unruly premises.

The police are the main enforcers of the licensing act. Im sure there is something in the Act (or guidence not - not law I know) itself that says when the police are taking action its only in 'exceptional or compelling circumstances' should the committee disagree! Your case sounds crazy!!Glad the place closed in the end.