puncture - locking wheel nut not coming off

mr218

just a bit of background
I have a peugeot 307 tdi from april 2003 with a mileage of approaching 50,000. In terms of service history I have serviced the car for the first three years with the peugeot dealer and after that with a garage near my work that also services some of our company cars. The break pads have been changed once and I have had tyre changed on the front and back in the last few years.

I had a blow out on front left tyre very close to home last weekend. Very carefully we managed to navigate the car home and arranged for a call out service to change the two front tyres on Monday.
The right front tyre which was ok was relatively easily replaced. The person from that company was very helpful but could not get the left front wheel off. The problem was the locking wheel nut which seemed to be unmovable. He said he would come back the next day (Tuesday) with different tools. Alas again he was not be able to change the tyre.

I called a local garage and explained the situation and asked them whether they could do it. They were also ok with liaising with the tyre company and let them change the tyre. The local garage quoted me 40 pounds for this over the phone. The tyre company guy was very good in that he offered to drive very slowly behind me to the local garage which is just around the corner. He was there at reception and the garage and he exchanged phone numbers.
The garage said they could not work on the car that day but would try the next day. The garage has not been very communitative. I had to call and contact them for updates.
The next day (Wednesday) they told me over the phone they broke a tool on it and the cost would be between 100 and 200 pounds. At that point I called another garage recommended to me basically saying these locking wheel nuts are a nightmare and I should stick with my local garage.

Today (Thursday) they were talking over 400 pounds over the phone and there was still no end to this. On this alarming news I went there in person. The reception staff were very understanding but the main mechanic now told me he already spend over 600 pounds on labour and several broken parts had to be replaced on top of it and there was still no solution. The car might be ok some time next week. I raised the point I can not let them charge hundreds of pounds day on day without them finding a solution. His standpoint is that it is out of my hands they can basically charge what they think is necessary and I just have to bear it. He has to fix it and can not let the car go off site before he does. Is this right? Any suggestions what my legal position is or what my options are.

any suggestions, comments help etc very welcome

harveybobbles

Peugeot ones are crap!! They always get stuck! The best way to remove them is to hammer a normal socket over the locking nut and have two people handy - one to put pressure on the wrench and one to hit the socket with the hammer. Slowly, they come off. Then replace with some decent ones.

rev_henry

harveybobbles wrote: »

Peugeot ones are crap!! They always get stuck! The best way to remove them is to hammer a normal socket over the locking nut and have two people handy - one to put pressure on the wrench and one to hit the socket with the hammer. Slowly, they come off. Then replace with some decent ones.

I've heard similar things about locking wheel nuts in general. A few years ago my dad bought an MX5 without the wheel nut keys. Local tyre man just said 'oh don't worry about those' and forced a normal socket onto them and took them off. More trouble than they're worth really.

fordfocus-chav-car

I was always led to understand,they can only charge you the original amount they qouted,unless they contact you first to authorize futher work.
To be honest, they are having a laugh,its only a hours job with a hammer & chisel.

Wig

harveybobbles wrote: »

Peugeot ones are crap!! They always get stuck! The best way to remove them is to hammer a normal socket over the locking nut and have two people handy - one to put pressure on the wrench and one to hit the socket with the hammer. Slowly, they come off. Then replace with some decent ones.

No, then replace with normal non-locking hex head studs. These locking things are more trouble than they are worth. No-one has wheels stolen anymore, you'd have to live in the !!!!!! pits to have any chance of getting your wheels stolen.

Dustykitten

I can only sympathise I was in a similar but not as bad situation last year. The garage managed to force mine off but broke their tool in the process - they only charged £25 though - it was a tyre place. I did replace all of mine with Halfords ones which touch wood have been fine to date. I agree they are a nightmare and I wonder if they are worth the hassle. Good luck.

Homersimpson

Take the car away and don't pay them, your paying for their expertise, if you wanted someone who didn't know what they were doing to fix it you would have done it yourself! (no offence intended).

A friend of mine runs a garage and they have special extractors for locking wheel nuts, when these cant do it they either have to weld something onto the nut (Which may mark the wheel but has the effect of heating the nut) or use a hammer and chisel if they can get it in.

If they even think of charging you £600 for nothing then I wouldn't stand for it, as for charging you for them breaking there tools thats not really your problem. You can usually tell when a tool is going to break and they should stop before this happens. Sound like a bunch of monkeys to me!

Wig

mr218 wrote: »

just a bit of background
I have a peugeot 307 tdi from april 2003 with a mileage of approaching 50,000. In terms of service history I have serviced the car for the first three years with the peugeot dealer and after that with a garage near my work that also services some of our company cars. The break pads have been changed once and I have had tyre changed on the front and back in the last few years.

I had a blow out on front left tyre very close to home last weekend. Very carefully we managed to navigate the car home and arranged for a call out service to change the two front tyres on Monday.
The right front tyre which was ok was relatively easily replaced. The person from that company was very helpful but could not get the left front wheel off. The problem was the locking wheel nut which seemed to be unmovable. He said he would come back the next day (Tuesday) with different tools. Alas again he was not be able to change the tyre.

I called a local garage and explained the situation and asked them whether they could do it. They were also ok with liaising with the tyre company and let them change the tyre. The local garage quoted me 40 pounds for this over the phone. The tyre company guy was very good in that he offered to drive very slowly behind me to the local garage which is just around the corner. He was there at reception and the garage and he exchanged phone numbers.
The garage said they could not work on the car that day but would try the next day. The garage has not been very communitative. I had to call and contact them for updates.
The next day (Wednesday) they told me over the phone they broke a tool on it and the cost would be between 100 and 200 pounds. At that point I called another garage recommended to me basically saying these locking wheel nuts are a nightmare and I should stick with my local garage.

Today (Thursday) they were talking over 400 pounds over the phone and there was still no end to this. On this alarming news I went there in person. The reception staff were very understanding but the main mechanic now told me he already spend over 600 pounds on labour and several broken parts had to be replaced on top of it and there was still no solution. The car might be ok some time next week. I raised the point I can not let them charge hundreds of pounds day on day without them finding a solution. His standpoint is that it is out of my hands they can basically charge what they think is necessary and I just have to bear it. He has to fix it and can not let the car go off site before he does. Is this right? Any suggestions what my legal position is or what my options are.

any suggestions, comments help etc very welcome

I would not accept this.

First of all they quoted you £40 they should not have done extra work without your permission.

Also if it is going to cost so much time in labour (I'd like to know what the hell they have been doing to spend so much time on it) it would be more economical to take an angle grinder to the wheel and cut the wheel off and just buy a new wheel.
You are not responsible for any tools they break.

And as far as I know they cannot stop you removing your car from their premises, of course it may be illegal to drive on a flat tyre, but they cannot stop you from doing it.

If you gave them permission to continue working on it, then you are stuffed. But if you want them to stop working on it, you tell them to STOP, and if the car is impossible to drive you have the option of arranging a rescue truck or hiring a car trailer for £80 - £100 (and of course you need a driver with a vehicle with a tow hook on the back to tow the trailer) put the car onto the truck or the trailer and take it away from this garage which by the sounds of it are not very clever and not very honest..

personally I'd drive the vehicle away, (have you got a spare set of keys incase they think of holding yours while they call the police on you?) and drive it at least to a nearby car park or free "on road" parking space. Somewhere around the corner where they can't see where you have gone, then later on that night drive it home when the police are not going to be looking for you (assuming they call the police and assuming the police give a !!!!!!)


I'd be tempted to instruct a solicitor to help you tell this garage that you are not paying these hundreds of pounds because you never authorised them. I'd also try getting some other garages to quote for the removal and if they can get it off quicker then you have an argument of incompetence against the first garage so as not to pay their invoice.

Premier_2

Wig wrote: »

... No-one has wheels stolen anymore, ...

That's because the majority are now fitted with locking wheel nuts! :rolleyes:

Premier_2

mr218 wrote: »

... His standpoint is that it is out of my hands they can basically charge what they think is necessary and I just have to bear it. He has to fix it and can not let the car go off site before he does. Is this right? ...

Er, no. They can only charge what you have authorised. So that depends on what you have so far authorised.
Of course, the garage can charge what they like for the work (which is what they appear attempting to do!), but if you don't agree then the garage won't fix it and you will be left with sorting out the car.
The garage can charge for work carried out so far which you would have authorised by sending the car in i.e. investigative work, but that should certainly be no more than about £50 (and that would be a rip off cost too!). As others have said, any decent garage should be able to get the wheel nut off for that price!
If you don't agree to the work being carried out, and fail to remove the car from the garage promptly, you'll probably find the terms & conditions you agreed to allow the garage to charge storage costs.

cheekychappy

Tighten the other wheelnuts up first and do the socket job.
Last Peugeot I had, I angle grinded the wheel off and get one from a scrappy and get the tyre changed all for under about £80.