2.5 Million Families on £100k/year Don't Feel Rich

Davesnave

As some of you know, I used to have a part-time plant nursery business as well as teaching full time, so my hours would be long at certain times of the year, particularly the summer term, which was busiest for both jobs.

When I began in teaching, some staff really did roll up at 8.45am and race the kids down the drive at 3.30pm, but that was back in the 70s. Most of those guys were pensioned-off early in the 80s, I’m pleased to say, though we are still paying for some of them! By the time I finished, we’d be showing-up at around 7.45am and leaving at 5.30, which makes a substantial day, usually followed by a couple of hours preparation/marking in the comfort of home later in the evening. In between the two, during the season, I’d normally fit in an hour or two in the greenhouse to keep the stock moving forward, or else we’d have run out.

Summer term was manic, beginning with SATS, and then a week away with the kids on an extended visit, followed by The Big Show and preparing reports, all mixed up with the usual end of term stuff like parents’ evenings, fetes and socials. The Show and reports were the worst, but at least the academic pressure eased a bit. The problem for me at that time of year was that both days on the weekend would be taken up with plant fairs and markets too. Of course it wasn’t just me; DW was as full time as she could be on the plants, but being out selling four days a week, she could only do so much at the nursery end.

I’m sure other staff thought I was mad, but I felt that having a business kept me sane. Teaching full-on is exhausting, so going home to Radio 4 and the evening sun shining through the end of the greenhouse was a great way to wind-down. Also, turning up at the market at 7am on a Saturday gave me another perspective on life and an entirely different experience in the way I was treated by others, which was refreshing. Doing gigs at country piles introduced us to people who we’d never have met in our other lives, so that was a bonus too.

There’s bound to be someone who will come on and tell me all about the holidays,:rolleyes: and yes, without those, I’d not have done the teaching at all in later years. The long summer one was when I managed to lick the nursery back into shape, as it would get pretty ragged at the edges by July, never mind our own garden! The other holidays? Well we had a couple of kids too, who deserved the odd day out, but they still had to put up with Oct/Nov or February for a proper holiday, poor dears.

There was a big pay out at the end too, which some of you know about, involving the type of property we were able to purchase when we retired this year, but I'm not going there... Let's just say that one thing paid better than the business ever did!:D

Davesnave

fc123 wrote: »

But it's the 'getting things wrong' could take you to the wall.

The problem is also, that one can be fab at one part (say the ideas and development) but other really important things just aren't in ones skillset....like accounts, marketing or just having people or sales skills.

That's it. Without DW I'd have been stuck. Many of us don't have the full skill-set.

About 15 years ago, we visited an old lady whose plant nursery was quite famous at the time, but is now long-gone. We told her we were just setting-up in business.

She took one look at both of us and then said:
'Well just remember, my dears, any bloody fool can grow plants; it's shifting them that takes the skill.'

We listened.

She was 100% right.....well, 95% anyway!

misskool

the thing with my ideas is that they don't involve selling a physical object as such,both are very niche human resource ideas. Think that makes it a harder sale. Anyways,real job beckons and the dreaming stops for a bit.

Lotus-eater

PasturesNew wrote: »

But no schmoozing ... never let me near influential people... I'll just say or do something odd.

Heh heh, if I only could remember all the work I've lost, by saying the wrong, or a strange thing to someone important

I'd have a better memory.........:p

No, I really think my chip isn't wired in correctly somewhere :cool:

silvercar

PasturesNew wrote: »

These are the precise reasons I am not a multi-millionaire. I can do everything except the schmoozing ... I also struggle with making my mind up what to pursue and my focus for my own stuff is sketchy.

For others though, I'm a right little back room powerhouse of productivity, planning and brilliance

But no schmoozing ... never let me near influential people... I'll just say or do something odd.

You need an agent.:)

I know someone in IT who was "found" by a small company who appreciated her skills but realised she [STRIKE]couldn't market herself [/STRIKE]was underselling herself. They bid for contracts with "Dr XX will be working on this project"; they gain the contract, she gains the work without having to attempt any shmoozing.

silvercar

fc123 wrote: »

The problem is also, that one can be fab at one part (say the ideas and development) but other really important things just aren't in ones skillset....like accounts, marketing or just having people or sales skills.

Then you have to work really hard at those things to get them right.

It's hard and I live by my sig at the mo. Snag is, we are being a bit too cautious right now as I now analyse every move a bit too much.

My old dad was at the forefront of computer research and development in the 60's and 70's and has research studenst that went off and took the ideas and truned them into amazing businesses....he couldn't have done it himself as he didn't have those other skills.

I cheat as I have OH and he is the people and the 'Now' person. He sorts out today and tomo, I am always 2 months ahead. It works well. On my own, I would flit about ideawise too much too.

On our own we would get nowhere, but OH can do the finance and the strategic planning, I can do all the back office stuff and the shmoozing of the minions that make it all happen.

Together it works, either of us on our own and either it wouldn't get off the ground or disappear like an untethered balloon.

Mirrors our home finances too. He is happy to spend what we have and I'm the cautious one.

(So he chooses a tracker mortgage rate, I put away the savings we are making each month on the reduced payments, he decides we can blow it all on Xmas in the sun.:o)

PasturesNew

Davesnave wrote: »

'Well just remember, my dears, any bloody fool can grow plants; it's shifting them that takes the skill.'

This is what I tell people: anybody can have ideas, it's marketing that's the downer, it's relentless.

Every one of us can have an idea, think we've invented something.

Anybody who watches Dragons Den will see inventor after inventor who has spent fortunes building prototypes and getting their business going, with various levels of success.

To even start, you need the money, direction, time and bl00dy-minded determination that the world really DOES want your mad gadget - and there's a surprising amount who have invested their life savings into some piece of old cack without any patent protection.

As a single-wage-earner, I never had the spare money, nor could afford to take the risk that anything I tried would work out. Borrowing any first amount might be feasible, but beyond that you have to factor in "if I lost the lot, what are my chances of regaining my lost financial ground" and in my life the answer was always a resounding: zero. So I became risk averse - a "bird in the hand" type.

But the whole schmoozing, chatting to people, networking .... not in my skillset at all!

PasturesNew

silvercar wrote: »

You need an agent.:)

I know someone in IT who was "found" by a small company who appreciated her skills but realised she [STRIKE]couldn't market herself [/STRIKE]was underselling herself. They bid for contracts with "Dr XX will be working on this project"; they gain the contract, she gains the work without having to attempt any shmoozing.

That comes down to the opportunity, "who you know", so that's pure luck.

Companies I have worked for have gained business because I'd be doing the work, usually project management.

I worked for one small company (4 of us + 3 directors (only 1 of whom worked in the business)) and they had a rogue employee and ONE big client. The rogue employee managed to set up an identical business and get the one big client from the existing employers based SOLELY on the fact he could get me to work for him. The big client realised I was the only competent one in the firm. Unfortunately, the rogue employee was actually a psycho and he'd never even mentioned to me about stealing the client and me working for him ... so it all ended in tears. Tears all round as bad things happened, ending in the client walking from the original company, him ending up in court ... and the original company closing down as we'd lost the one big client. Only one client though ... because the sales person was a wet lemon.

It's ALL about sales/marketing. The sales person is the one who makes all the money. It's not the original idea/setup that makes the money, it's the person doing the selling.

lemonjelly

There is some brilliant, insightful, and useful information on this thread. Mainly in the posts I've made

Seriously, davesnave, FC123, silvercar, thanks for sharing some of this. It really helps us to learn. To be honest, its a credit to the forum.

kabayiri wrote: »

The other killer is the weekly commute at weekend from one end of the country to make your way home, if you have been sold onsite by your beloved employer.

Driving back from Bracknell / Reading regions on a Friday afternoon about 3.30 could sometimes mean arriving home well after 10pm. Hitting that wall of traffic gives you the sinking feeling, and half way through your weekend you start to feel down at the thought of the Sunday night return trip.

When people analyse the backdrop to some of these high salaries, they will start to see the downsides.

This is a biggie for me. There is stuff we can't put a price on. Time with those we love, or doing the things we love. Prior to my current job, I had a job which was ok (but the location & politics weren't good). Management pressure was intense at times. Hours were very long. The travel was not good.

Due to numerous issues I ended up applying for my current job. 10% pay cut. However, can walk to & from work (an absolute JOY! I love walking & the time I get to myself, to think, plan, ponder, listen to music!) I know what time I'll finish work. I reckon I am working 10-15 hours a week less. I have significantly less stress. It is fantastic!

fc123 wrote: »

I was thinking about this today..as you do....

and we work silly hours and have done for years. However, there is a deff difference between long hours in own business and long hours in someone elses.

My dear MIL has never unerstood that when she wants to 'pop' over, we can't just drop everything and sit down, chit chat and drink tea for 4 hours
...it was worse when we had the shop...she just didn't get that we couldn't just close it and take the day off despite the fact that we didn't have to 'ask' a boss for time off. We did try to explain but she still doesn't understand that being the boss doesn't mean you can just waft in and out when you feel like it.
She also, didn't get the idea of turnover and profit...with expenses sandwiched in the middle...so we had an embarrassing moment once when she was around at cashing up time and there was 1000's in cash plied up. She seemed to think this was our wages (I wish). I did try to explain but gave up.

Most evenings I am online and have tabs open....research, e-mail, here for watercooler moments. I answer queries all evening, check stuff out, do nearly all my admin and communication at night as the days are full of other things. But the big difference is I control my own schedule, I can choose whether to respond to something tomo or catch up on Ugly Betty, when to go to the loo, eat, comment on here or whatever.

Self employed hours are different to PAYE long hours even though one doesn't have more freedom as such (money has got to be made and pulled in so we survive rather than salary landing in the account every month) but it is a freedom of mind.

The freedom of mind makes the stressful times less stressful as one is always in control of what to do (whether they be easy or hard decisions) and, even if the wrong move is made, at least you know it was down to you....not some random other person whose actions you have no control over.

Just one example...OH drove down from a 7 day event late last night, crawled into bed @ midnight, up @ 6amam to unload hire van (to be returned by 8am) and was looking forward to Friday am....first morning in weeks (incl weekends as he works every one) no alarm @ 6.30.....then factory 'phoned and delivery due tomo wasn't picked up.

We need stock for weekend so he drove back to London tonight as he will leave @ 5am for Leicester to collect stock and deliver back to London.

However, he wasn't keen but it was his choice...do we want the new styles in or not? It is peak selling period so a no brainer but I think it's different if a boss called and told him he had to do it.

Fantastically insightful. :T My dad ran a very small sports shop for 10-15 years - started in the 80's.

To be honest, never really took off for him. Was too far outside the town centre. He used to work mon-fri, do saturday in the shop, & I recall sitting with him sundays after dinner with him doing the books. Actually, what kept it going was being able to sell stuff to all his workmates (large manufacturing organisation) with them all paying £3 a week or something, plus doing trophy orders. He managed to get a few decent sized orders - local pool leagues, a couple of schools etc.

When he closed the shop, a few of those who he did trophy orders for came to see him at home, & asked who he could recommend. He didn't really know anyone, so most of them asked him if he'd carry on doing them. He kept all the tools, & 1 or 2 times a year you can't move in our house as it is wall to wall trophies! We're all doing a bit, sawing, threading, tightening, engraving etc!

But it is worth it - it pays for their holiday every year.

kabayiri

lemonjelly wrote: »

Due to numerous issues I ended up applying for my current job. 10% pay cut. However, can walk to & from work (an absolute JOY! I love walking & the time I get to myself, to think, plan, ponder, listen to music!) I know what time I'll finish work. I reckon I am working 10-15 hours a week less. I have significantly less stress. It is fantastic!

Exactly

I am doing some work at the moment which allows me use the train to commute. It's such a nice feeling not having to drive in heavy traffic.

All thought about having a nice car have suddenly faded. I am happy with my current motor.

My drop in income has been a lot more than 10% I can tell you, but I will manage, and the extra time with family is a bonus.