IVA failure/completion stats now released for 1987 - 2008

rog2

Charco wrote: »

Even the so called factories do a job!

Perhaps they do - but not always a good 'job'.

These 'IVA factories', and some of the established Insolvency Companies, do not exist as a social function. They are businesses, pure and simple, and the primary aim of any business is to earn profit.
In this context, the IVA is no more than a 'product' - it could just as well be widgets - that has to be 'sold' at the highest cost that the market will support. If the market price does not yield a satisfactory margin, or results in a loss, then it will be the 'company' who sold it that is facing insolvency.
It so happens that, at the moment, 'insolvency' can be a pretty profitable area in which to trade and will, inevitably, attract the opportunists - it happens throughout the 'Financial [STRIKE]Industry[/STRIKE] Sector' whenever there is an easy 'buck' to be made.

BTW - you are asking why posts are removed. I did not see the said posts, but can only assume that they were reported as abusive.

MicheH

No Rog, don't worry - the posts were not abusive. The three posts that were deleted didn't make sense to the run of the thread. It's all my fault as I chickened out of joining in with this 'discussion' and deleted my post. Charco saw my post and wrote a reply but because I deleted my post the reply didn't quite fit in with the run of the thread. I'm guessing this is why they were removed.

Charco_2

Not abusive in the slightest, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps they do - but not always a good 'job'.
Not always a bad job either. The problem here is not that comanies are doing a bad job, but simply the great and the good's opinion of these companies. People's distaste and the half truths and anecdotes they tell because to their mind some companies = good and some companies = bad.


These 'IVA factories', and some of the established Insolvency Companies, do not exist as a social function.
My heart bleeds!

They are businesses, pure and simple, and the primary aim of any business is to earn profit.
Scum!

In this context, the IVA is no more than a 'product' - it could just as well be widgets - that has to be 'sold' at the highest cost that the market will support.
No, it is priced in terms of chargable hours - an IP is a qualified professional who deserves to be apid for his time, and the time of his staff, and the various other costs incurred. IVAs don't have a set fee. You can't just simply walk into your finance shop and buy a mortgage and say "oh and i'll have two IVAs too. Are they Fresh? Ripe off the tree this morning?"
And like lots of products, you also have to fit a set criteria to be able to get one. (Cigarettes and Alcohol you must be 18, Dirty magazines: i presume you have to be a certain age, some medicines are restricted...)

It so happens that, at the moment, 'insolvency' can be a pretty profitable area in which to trade and will, inevitably, attract the opportunists - it happens throughout the 'Financial Industry Sector' whenever there is an easy 'buck' to be made.
It's FAR from an easy buck! It's actually hard work. But then don't let that fact get in the way of you just saying stuff!

EDIT: Miche - there were still very valid points made in the posts regardless of you removing yours. It is a discussion forum after all!

rog2

Charco wrote: »

Sorry, i hadn't realised this was a board of determined mis-inforumation, where you can spout any old c-rap you like with impunity. The Stats were heralded this week, and then posted in here - as i have already said, i'd have thought the IVA board would have been more suitable but there you go!

Not quite true, Charco:

• This is a board which offers support to those who have been, are contemplating, or are being faced with bankruptcy. We aim to support those individuals by sharing our own experiences in order that the process of insolvency, whether bankruptcy, DRO or IVA, may be less daunting for the debtor.
• We do not advise people as to which form of insolency is the best option for them. We do, however, advise debtors to discuss their situation with the independent Debt Counselling Charities vefore making any decision as to which is the best solution for them.
• Once the debtor has made that decision, we will do our best to support that debtor. If the advised solution is bankruptcy, or a DRO, then that debtor will find the support, that he/she needs, on this - the main 'Bankruptcy and Living With It Board. If that debtor has chosen to deal with his/her debts through a DMP then we would suggest that he/she would get better, more specific, support on the DFW board.
• Until the last 're-organisation', both 'bankruptcy' and 'IVAs' shared the same (this) board, but with the ever increasing number of people choosing the IVA route, the IVA 'sub forum' was started. It is, as you have pointed out, still 'Insolvency' and much of the experience of posters on this board will be pertinent to those on the IVA sub board, and vice-versa.

We are not here to judge, advise or criticize the individual choice of any debtor. We may not always agree with that choice and will, as we are permitted to do, tell the debtor what we 'may' have done in his/her place.

Certainly in the area of 'mis-selling' of any debt 'solution', however widespread, or otherwise, that mis-selling may be, it would be wrong of us not to voice our concerns - even more so when those concerns are backed by Government records and statistics that certain elements of the financial sector would rather see consigned to the depths of obscurity.

Charco_2

Sorry, what's not quite true? You've taken a post of mine - out of context lifted seemingly randomly from the miriad of posts available and then said

"not quite true"

If everyone's concern was the "mis-selling of IVAs" then surely this thread would have been better placed on the IVA Board where people are CONSIDERING an IVA... not on a board where the horse has already bolted, so to speak!

And then you go on to give us some kind of mission statement for the board... I have to ask what are you talking about?

Yes, we're all here offering snippets of information and some pointers for those with questions.

• This is a board which offers support to those who have been, are contemplating, or are being faced with bankruptcy. We aim to support those individuals by sharing our own experiences in order that the process of insolvency, whether bankruptcy, DRO or IVA, may be less daunting for the debtor.
• We do not advise people as to which form of insolency is the best option for them. We do, however, advise debtors to discuss their situation with the independent Debt Counselling Charities vefore making any decision as to which is the best solution for them.
• Once the debtor has made that decision, we will do our best to support that debtor. If the advised solution is bankruptcy, or a DRO, then that debtor will find the support, that he/she needs, on this - the main 'Bankruptcy and Living With It Board. If that debtor has chosen to deal with his/her debts through a DMP then we would suggest that he/she would get better, more specific, support on the DFW board.
• Until the last 're-organisation', both 'bankruptcy' and 'IVAs' shared the same (this) board, but with the ever increasing number of people choosing the IVA route, the IVA 'sub forum' was started. It is, as you have pointed out, still 'Insolvency' and much of the experience of posters on this board will be pertinent to those on the IVA sub board, and vice-versa.

And i do have to ask the relevance!

We are not here to judge, advise or criticize the individual choice of any debtor. We may not always agree with that choice and will, as we are permitted to do, tell the debtor what we 'may' have done in his/her place.
On two separate occassions on here I have read a poster say "i think you're being mis-sold an IVA" after reading no more about a person than to say "i was speaking to an IP"

Certainly in the area of 'mis-selling' of any debt 'solution', however widespread, or otherwise, that mis-selling may be, it would be wrong of us not to voice our concerns - even more so when those concerns are backed by Government records and statistics that certain elements of the financial sector would rather see consigned to the depths of obscurity.
Which brings us back to this thread... Where ARE the Government Records and Statistics backing everyone's concerns about mis-selling? Who are the certain elements? and What exactly is it they would like to see consigned to the depths of obscurity!

rog2

Charco wrote: »

- an IP is a qualified professional who deserves to be apid for his time, and the time of his staff, and the various other costs incurred. [/B]

Are you a qualified Insolvency Practitioner, Charco?

Charco_2

If i told you a footballer was a professional who deserves to be paid would you think i was David Beckham?

rog2

Charco wrote: »

If i told you a footballer was a professional who deserves to be paid would you think i was David Beckham?

I'll take that as a 'no' then.

rog2

Charco wrote: »

No, it is priced in terms of chargable hours - an IP is a qualified professional who deserves to be apid for his time, and the time of his staff, and the various other costs incurred. IVAs don't have a set fee. You can't just simply walk into your finance shop and buy a mortgage and say "oh and i'll have two IVAs too. Are they Fresh? Ripe off the tree this morning?"

It's FAR from an easy buck! It's actually hard work. But then don't let that fact get in the way of you just saying stuff! [/B]

I can see, from looking at the salaries paid to their 'Sales Advisers' that there are indeed 'considerable' costs incurred:

http://www.reed.co.uk/job-details/Cheadle-Hulme/DEBT-MANAGEMENT-IVA-SALES-ADVISER/?JobID=17568775&&l=cheadle+hulme,+cheshire&flj=l&lit=1

With basic salaries of £18,000 p.a, and with uncapped commission structure giving a realistic OTE of £60,000 pa, these positions are designed to attract aggressive sales people in exactly the same way as, for example, Double Glazing companies. It is an 'industry' driven by sales, and a payment structure that encourages staff to 'push' the positive aspects of the process, rather than giving their prospective clients a fully balanced view of both pros and cons.

Charco_2

Phew, those sales advisors are as well paid as some qualified IPs!

1. I doubt they ever get their £60k

2.They also actually sell DMPs... which i would guess makes up the bulk of their extras - it being a completely unregulated "industry"! Remind me who else pushes DMPs... (sometime before this post vanishes if you can manage it!)

***Clock's ticking***