Help with solicitor/damp report

lasci

Hi all,

We are in the process of buying a house (yey!) and currently have a few issues.

Firstly we were aware that various walls had been removed downstairs between rooms, and the chimney breast, and we wrote this on our instruction sheet to the solicitor. A couple of weeks in we ask the solicitor if they have heard anything re. building regulations for this work. Solicitor seems to think this is the first they have heard about this and will make enquiries. To me that seemed odd, I thought the point of having a solicitor was to notice that kind of thing, and secondly since we had already mentioned it we thought that would have been one of the first things they would enquire about, or am I wrong in thining this?

Second issue, the full structural survey said there were above average damp readings, so we had a damp specialist in who says there were no damp issues. Guess the obvious answer would be to have a 3rd opinion, but just wondered if anyone else had this same issue with their survey/damp specialist?

Many thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give me! :-)

jhe

hi lasci.if you ring your local council they might tell you about any building/planning regs that have been granted on the property. they were very helpful when i rang with queries regarding a property i bought.

lasci

Excellent will try that thanks, just didn't want to call them and find the answer, only for them not to tell the solicitor because they have already told me, and then for it not to be legal etc.

cattie

lasci wrote: »

Second issue, the full structural survey said there were above average damp readings, so we had a damp specialist in who says there were no damp issues. Guess the obvious answer would be to have a 3rd opinion, but just wondered if anyone else had this same issue with their survey/damp specialist?

Many thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give me! :-)

I had a similar survey report regarding damp on a Victorian property I bought some years ago. Like you I called in a damp specialist who reported no real problems & for my own peace of mind I called in a 2nd company who also reported no real problems & low readings.

David_Aldred

Hi Lasci,
If you do not get any joy regarding enquires to the Building Control Dept of the Local Authority within which the house is located then a competant structural engineer should be asked to inspect. Verbal reports not so expensive - written reports can be expensive especially where long term warranties are required.

A worst case scenario is that they may require an opening up exercise be undertaken to check method of support, diemensions of any beams / columns / foundations, fire protection of any steel, bearing depth of beams etc. There is a massive amount of weight in a chimney stack especially a back to back one and if support is inadequate this one would not be the first to suffer sudden and dramatic collapse.

Such an opening up exercise is not only destructive it might not be so cheap and the vendor may not wish to have such invasive disruption and then you also need to negotiate as to who may have to pay for all that should it be required. One thing to say is to resolve it now before you buy because if you come to sell at a later date it could blight any future sale just as much as it may be doing now. Fingers crossed Building Control have it on file but the fact you have not mentioned the vendor simply giving you copies of such permissions does not sound to be a good start.

That aside the fact that a Chartered Surveyor goes in and finds high value readings with a conductivity (electrical) damp meter one day and a short while later somebody else goes in and with a similar meter fails to get such high value readings is not uncommon and shows how reliance upon such meters when used upon plastered walls should not on their own be relied upon for justification of a new damp proof course being required.

You could have a poor survey by the dpc contractor or you could have variations in readings with the weather / relative humidity and there could be other reasons for variations in readings.

One of the cross referances to be made will be to check the moisture content of timber within the areas of concern, since conductivity damp meter readings to wood are fairly accurate so long as no preservative is present given that generally the only thing in wood is a certain level of moisture. Wood will sustain decay at around 20-22% levels of moisture and this is termed the threshold of decay. The key to preventing decay is to maintain the moisture content within the wood below this level which should be achievable in a well designed property.

Readings by electrical conductivity damp meters taken upon wall surfaces are usually a "wood moisture equivalent" reading that is to say if a piece of wood were placed against that wall it would be damp at such and such a reading and therefore at risk of decay.

Readings by conductivity damp meters to wall surfaces are however not as straightforward as that and one can see the problems straight away if you think about it. A conductivity damp meter is really nothing more than a battery and two open ended wires, a small distance apart with a scale to read from. The easier it is for the electricity to run between the two wires the higher the value of the reading, they really are that simple.

So stick your fingers on the ends of these wires and you get a high reading - does that mean your finger has rising damp and you have to spend thousands of pounds on a new damp proof course to your fingers? No of course not and hence why the current system of Chartered Surveyors directing their clients to send damp-proofing contractors looking for work for their own profit into houses and those contractors the majority of which are both unqualified and without professional indemnity insurance to give you advice by turning round to you and saying they found a red light / high reading on their conductivity damp meter so you need a new damp proof course is just so open to abuse it is not even funny.

One problem you can see is that different plasters absorb moisture at different rates and the moisture reading by such electrical damp meters of that plaster will fluctuate not only with what is going on with that wall behind the plaster but also what is going on at the decorated side of the plaster (i.e. if the relative humidity is high in the room one day and low the next the readings can vary drastically). In addition such readings will vary with what is actually within that plaster itself such as whether it is contaminated with salts etc and therefore the actual value obtained on that meter may be nothing at all to do with whether or not there is any rising dampness present to the wall.

If you are still concerned about what might or might not be the truth of the matter the recommendation is for you to look upon the Property Care Association website (PCA) and select find a member, then to select Freelance or Consultant from that list (the rest are contractors) and the Freelance or Consultant in your area will be happy to give truly independent and qualified advice upon the subject matter.

Hope this helps throw some light upon the matter, kindest regards David Aldred Independent dampness and timber surveyor

lasci

Thanks for your replies.

We have had a separate damp specialist report which has helped.

With regards to building regulations our solicitor is enquiring. I am not so concerned about the regulations, more whether the building is safe. Should my full structural survey not have picked up on whether the walls/chimney have been removed safely? All it says in it is that we need to instruct our solicitor to find out, but surely that is the point of the full structural survey? Or maybe not!

Fire_Fox

You should be concerned about building regs as this is your proof that the correct size RSJ was installed in the correct position - i.e. the building is safe!! If load-bearing walls and chimney breasts have been removed an RSJ should have been put in, inspected and passed by the council and then covered over with plasterboard. If this has not been done and the building is sagging then obviously the surveyor will note that, but he can't very well remove the plasterboard to check for an RSJ ... Therefore the surveyor will advise you to check that there is a buildings control certificate. If you read the RICS website that explains what a full structural survey does and does not cover.

lasci

Thanks Fire Fox. Sorry shouldn't have said I don't care about building regs cos I do, and yes the reason I care is so that the building is safe. I am just a bit worried they might try and get me to accept indemnity insurance which isn't what I want to accept, I want to know if the building will stay up!

Thanks for letting me know that this isn't covered in the structural survey, and as it happens I am on the RICS website now trying to find that very document!

A nervous few days waiting for the solicitors response I think!!!