Need some advice over low income rental pse.

katieowl_2

OK Long story - cut short.

My DD (23) left uni 18 months ago and can't get a permenant job but she is on a temporary contract that ends at Xmas and her BF (24) is a plumber, but he got laid off about a month ago, he can't find anything at the moment, but Xmas is a bad time for the building trade at the best of times, which these aren't!

In March 09 they were living with us, when we finally managed to sell our house and we moved out of London. Neither of them would have been able to rent without bank of mum and dad standing guarentor, which we did, but because the BF is self employed, we also had to pay up six months rent in advance, to be followed with the second six months worth of the rent, due at the six month break clause. We agreed to this for various reasons, and they were going to pay us back the rental each month. They got into some arrears in the first six months with me, but because of timings and other family matters, my DD wanted to pull at six months, but left it too late to decide, so we were committed for another six months, and we stumped up another six months rent...which is now seriously in arrears to me. That's my problem.

BUT...they need to give two months notice to quit, which they are going to do as we cannot afford to pay out anymore on their behalf. My question is what happens next??? They will be homeless, probably BOTH out of work unless something turns up. The BF also has other debts, and I've put him on to CCCS.

The BF is signing on, and when he showed them their rental papers, they said it wasn't a rent agreement, and then sent him landlord forms through the post to get signed. DD sent a copy to me, and I said I can't sign that as I'm not your landlord - I'm listed on the tenancy too. She also said that because she is working until Xmas the DSS(?) told the BF he'd only get a contribution towards the rent anyway. IMHO I don't think they should bother for the last two months? I don't want to inadvertantly sign anything for which I'm not entitled etc.

I'm infinately more concerned about what provisions can be made for them for when they leave this flat (Feb 10) If the pair of them couldn't get a flat before, when he was working, how will they get one now. I've not been in the rental market myself for many years, but I know I've seen loads of "No DSS" signs on flats. Is there any suggestions anyone can make, what should they do now?

Kate

adg1

I would see out the rest of this second 6 month tenancy, then move out and find a private rental after speaking to the local housing office. They will calculate the allowance they can get for housing and help them apply. If possible, ask the landlord to serve them notice at the end of the tenancy as they could then be classed as homeless and can sometimes get help from local authorities.

If they have the moving in money themselves (or you can help them) for the 4/6 week deposit and first months rent then they should, if both are not working, be able to claim Local Housing Allowance (from the DSS) to cover the rent in a new property rented privately via an agent or private landlord who is DSS happy - many are, indeed some landlords on here accept DSS payments. They may also qualify for a house through the council.

With the LHA paying the rent, you standing as guarantor would have far less risk in a sense, though your liabilities are ultimately the same (you wouldn't have to pay up front for rent, just back them up in case of a shortfall etc).

I'm sure someone will be along soon with links or to correct me but that is my understanding of LHA in this area.

silvercar

When does the second 6 months end? Check your agreement carefully, if they have signed for asecond 6 month term, there is no notice to give (though its polite to do so) and they are held till the end of the 6 months. If the tenancy followed on a periodic basis after the first 6 months then tenants only need to give one months notice to end at the end of a rent period. Do be careful because the last thing you need is for them to leave a property and you not get the rent in advance back.

Jowo_2

When does the current fixed term contract end and are you sure there is a stipulation that they must give 2 months notice to end it or do you just mean they will soon notify the agent/landlord that they do intend to renew it? Apart from a valid break-clause, it's unusual for a fixed term contract to have a notice period in it.

To clarify - you are both the guarantor but also listed on the tenancy agreement?!

Are they able to move in with friends or relatives?

Probably worth them viewing the Shelter website to understand about to deal with rent arrears and avoid homelessness.

Might perhaps be worthwhile speaking to the local council housing department to understand the process for finding onward accommodation on low income/benefits, check if the council run a deposit guarantee scheme or have schemes to place people with LHA friendly landlords.

Quite harshly, if someone facing homelessness applies to the local council for assistance, the local council has no obligation to help them if they leave their accommodation when they did not need to (i.e. gives in their notice to the landlord) or when their behaviour has caused it (such as being evicted through rent arrears when they could have paid it).

It's therefore worth understanding now how the local council will treat a homelessness application in the future to make sure they don't accidentally limit their options.

Jowo_2

adg1 wrote: »

If possible, ask the landlord to serve them notice at the end of the tenancy as they could then be classed as homeless and can sometimes get help from local authorities.

Firstly, though hard to prove, councils do not take kindly to any collusion between landlord and tenants through manipulating a scenario where the landlord evicts the tenants in order for them to qualify as 'homeless'.

Secondly, many councils operate gatekeeping policies whereby they try to filter out the huge demand on their services with the scant resources they have. They often tell tenants to stay put when the landlord serves notice, that the council will only provide assistance once the landlord has taken them to court and gained a possession order.

This extra time and expense is likely to be resented by some landlords and is one reason why some will not consider LHA claimants ("No DSS") in the first place, knowing they are much harder to evict than working tenants.

Additionally, if the landlord informs the local council that rent arrears were a factor in their decision to serve notice, then a council could deem the tenants to have made themselves intentionally homeless if they could have paid the rent but did not.

Perhaps the tenants on this thread need to consider if the best option is to stay put, communicate any problems paying rent to the landlord, including suggesting a repayment schedule for any arrears (which they must stick to) and look into their LHA entitlement.

adg1

Jowo wrote: »

Perhaps the tenants on this thread need to consider if the best option is to stay put, communicate any problems paying rent to the landlord, including suggesting a repayment schedule for any arrears (which they must stick to) and look into their LHA entitlement.

There is no arrears to the Landlord as yet as both 6 month periods have been paid in advance. Look in to LHA allowance when both are not working and talk to the landlord and see if he is happy for them to continue as tenants with help from LHA, and maybe OP standing as guarantor?

katieowl_2

Jowo wrote: »

Firstly, though hard to prove, councils do not take kindly to any collusion between landlord and tenants through manipulating a scenario where the landlord evicts the tenants in order for them to qualify as 'homeless'.

Secondly, many councils operate gatekeeping policies whereby they try to filter out the huge demand on their services with the scant resources they have. They often tell tenants to stay put when the landlord serves notice, that the council will only provide assistance once the landlord has taken them to court and gained a possession order.

This extra time and expense is likely to be resented by some landlords and is one reason why some will not consider LHA claimants ("No DSS") in the first place, knowing they are much harder to evict than working tenants.

Additionally, if the landlord informs the local council that rent arrears were a factor in their decision to serve notice, then a council could deem the tenants to have made themselves intentionally homeless if they could have paid the rent but did not.

Perhaps the tenants on this thread need to consider if the best option is to stay put, communicate any problems paying rent to the landlord, including suggesting a repayment schedule for any arrears (which they must stick to) and look into their LHA entitlement.

DD & her BF are not in arrears to the Landlord. They are in arrears to me, as far as the owners/landlords of the flat they are paid in full up to Feburary 2010, the end of the year's contract we signed.

One of the reasons I was querying the whole thing, is that they wouldn't have let to them rent this flat in the first place as the BF was self employed, and DD was at that point unemployed. I did wonder if they should try staying put, but I couldn't quite see how that would work? Presumably they would want us to put down another six months, having signed a years another years contract. But we are not in a position to do that now. Assuming they agreed to let them stay would they agree to DSS? who knows, but I doubt it.

I guess if they asked them to leave, they would be technically have been 'made homeless' but it's an expensive flat, and they are having trouble covering all the other bills too - I think they were hoping to find something a lot cheaper to run. Its also two bed - as our teenage son was also living with them when they first moved in - but now he's back with us.

Kate

Fire_Fox

To be honest the best thing you can do for them is sit down with bank statements and work out where their money has gone. If they can't live on two full-time wages (you say BF only laid off a month ago), then they are going to be in a world of trouble both on benefits. LHA will be paid to them directly, so the risk of not paying the rent is probably high - lets face it they haven't been paying rent back to you!

If they give up their current flat the council will see them as intentionally homeless, they will have to wait to get evicted through the courts. They will also be viewed as intentionally homeless if they get evicted for not paying rent. They are unlikely to get full LHA for a two bedroom flat, so there will be shortfall. Do they really need to stay in London, with neither in work?? If they must can they not get a double room in a house as someone's lodger with utility bills included?

Edited to add: just remembered I *think* that paying six months in advance (especially twice) can be seen as the rent period is six months - i.e. they need to give six months notice! You should be able to automatically go onto a rolling monthly contract rather than sign a new agreement, and pay monthly tho I would imagine it depends what the AST says. Obviously the letting agent/ landlord won't like this, but they can't evict on grounds of non-payment of rent only on a no fault eviction (S21). This might give breathing space to claim for LHA which will take quite a while to come through.

katieowl_2

Jowo wrote: »

When does the current fixed term contract end and are you sure there is a stipulation that they must give 2 months notice to end it or do you just mean they will soon notify the agent/landlord that they do intend to renew it? Apart from a valid break-clause, it's unusual for a fixed term contract to have a notice period in it.

To clarify - you are both the guarantor but also listed on the tenancy agreement?!

Are they able to move in with friends or relatives?

Probably worth them viewing the Shelter website to understand about to deal with rent arrears and avoid homelessness.

Might perhaps be worthwhile speaking to the local council housing department to understand the process for finding onward accommodation on low income/benefits, check if the council run a deposit guarantee scheme or have schemes to place people with LHA friendly landlords.

Quite harshly, if someone facing homelessness applies to the local council for assistance, the local council has no obligation to help them if they leave their accommodation when they did not need to (i.e. gives in their notice to the landlord) or when their behaviour has caused it (such as being evicted through rent arrears when they could have paid it).

It's therefore worth understanding now how the local council will treat a homelessness application in the future to make sure they don't accidentally limit their options.

Yes I am guarantor and listed on the tenancy... I'll double check that, but I'm sure that is the case.

We are now in West Wales, and they are in SE London - it would be problematic for them to be here, as we need our extra room for B&B come the spring, that's going to be our main source of income. Neither of them can drive, we are four miles from town, and there's not a lot of work here either!!!

BF's mother is overcrowded anyway - there are three of them in two bed flat. One of them sleeps in Living room! That's pretty much all the family there is.

I suggested that she speak to the council - I think that's worth firming up. I know they won't get council accomodation...but I can't see any alternative to housing benefit. If DD can't find any work after Xmas, she will be signing on too.

Thanks for all your input!

katieowl_2

Fire_Fox wrote: »

To be honest the best thing you can do for them is sit down with bank statements and work out where their money has gone. If they can't live on two full-time wages (you say BF only laid off a month ago), then they are going to be in a world of trouble both on benefits. LHA will be paid to them directly, so the risk of not paying the rent is probably high - lets face it they haven't been paying rent back to you!

If they give up their current flat the council will see them as intentionally homeless, they will have to wait to get evicted through the courts. They will also be viewed as intentionally homeless if they get evicted for not paying rent. They are unlikely to get full LHA for a two bedroom flat, so there will be shortfall. Do they really need to stay in London, with neither in work?? If they must can they not get a double room in a house, as someone's lodger with utility bills included?

Not two full time wages...DD was unemployed until about August...then she only got a part time temporary job. TBH she's been pretty good with ££ until now. I've been saying for ages they won't find anywhere cheaper as they were only paying 2/3 of the rent (our son was the other 1/3 and we were covering that as he was still at school doing his A-levels - but he missed us too much and he's now here with us!)

Even so....your point is not missed! No more Domino's Pizza HUH?!

Kate

katieowl_2

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Edited to add: just remembered I *think* that paying six months in advance (especially twice) can be seen as the rent period is six months - i.e. they need to give six months notice! You should be able to automatically go onto a rolling monthly contract rather than sign a new agreement, and pay monthly tho I would imagine it depends what the AST says. Obviously the letting agent/ landlord won't like this, but they can't evict on grounds of non-payment of rent only on a no fault eviction (S21). This might give breathing space to claim for LHA which will take quite a while to come through.

I asked DD to check when they needed notice to be given back in September, when we had to pay up another six months. They told her then that she needed to give two months notice... So we'd agreed they would do it before Xmas to give them plenty of time. That was before the BF lost his job.

Kate