Tariff Charge Error

dogshome

Hi yet again boblove - There is another thing about the ways in which Scot Power are trying to get you to pay for their error

We have it in Black & White from the Colin the SP spokesman, that they will apply the "No back-billing beyond 12 months" rule when assessing what you owe, which he must full well know cannnot be applied in your circumstances.

The 12 month rule can only be applied where the supplier has failed to produce any bill for a period beyond 12 months, and wrong tariff or not, you have been getting bills. ( If it were to apply, that would be wonderful news to all the people Scot. Power have threatened with Bailiffs to recover debts caused by under billed consumption.

Take heart, Scot Powers wriggling underlines the strength of your case
Good Luck

Scottish_Power

Hi dogshome

The billing code is there to protect customers where an error has been made by a supplier. I have attached a link which provides further information on this code and the benefits of this for customers.

http://www.energy-retail.org.uk/documents/CodeofPracticeforAccurateBills.pdf

There are a number of factors which need to be reviewed to confirm whether or not the back billing code does apply. Boblove mentions that he has been billed on the wrong tariff (he could have been billed on a 1 rate tariff when he has a 2 rate meter or his gas has been billed as a metric meter and it should have been imperial). On each occasion the supplier has a responsibility to ensure the customer is being billed correct, especially if the supplier has arranged for a meter reader to access the property and read the meter (therefore confirming the meter details at that time).

Kind Regards

Colin @ ScottishPower

dogshome

Hello Colin Scot. Power representative Thank you for the link to the Code of Practice document issued by your Trade Assn

However having carefully read it, it contains absolutely nothing to undermine my Post 12 statement that the 12 month billing rule cannot be applied to Boblove's problem - It is entirely governed by a lack of billing by the supplier - Boblove has had bills, so why in your Post 9 did you say that it could be applied?
Is this in fact a tactic in a situation where SP have screwed up, then to look helpful and yet still get some money out of the customer, have come up with any old excuse to discount the bill without putting their hand up?

I notice that although I have written two other posts that question the legality of these particular back-charges under contract law, you have failed to comment on either of them.

Cardew

I agree with the argument put forward by dogshome above in that the 12 month back-billing rule has no relevance.

However I can see nothing in the OP's posts to say that they intend charging him for arrears!! He just asked if they can claim it back.

Surely we need a little more detail?

The normal situation here is that on an Economy 7 tariff the meters have been mixed up, e.g. night consumption charged at day rates and vice versa.

Scottish_Power

Hi Boblove

First and foremost, contact us to discuss the details of the errors made on your account and to confirm whether the back billing code will apply for you.

Thanks for your further post doshome. I can confirm that the energy suppliers who have agreed to comply with the Energy Retail Associations (ERA)Code of Practice for Accurate Billing are in the process of creating a detailed document to confirm when a back billing adjustment is required. As soon as this is complete, the ERA will publish this for all cosumers to view.

In relation to your Post 10 comment - The best way to address this, I believe, is to refer you to our Terms & Conditions for domestic customers.

In relation to the account being billed incorrectly, Part 13.2 states:

[*]Subject to Condition 13.3, [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]we [/FONT][/FONT]will bill [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]you [/FONT][/FONT]and [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]you [/FONT][/FONT]will pay [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]us [/FONT][/FONT]for a supply of [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Fuel [/FONT][/FONT]made by [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]us [/FONT][/FONT]in accordance with the payment option, and at the price applying to that payment option, as specified in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Application Form [/FONT][/FONT]or in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Verbal Agreement [/FONT][/FONT]and recorded and detailed in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Letter [/FONT][/FONT](as applicable).

In relation to any price change while you are with ScottishPower I would refer you to section 5.8 which states:

If we increase the price or vary other terms of the Agreement to your significant disadvantage we will notify you of that within 65 Working Days of the increase or variation taking effect. If you do not accept the increase or variation you are entitled to end the Agreement by giving us notice to end the Agreement, within 10 Working Days of receiving the notification from us. If you give us that notice, the increase or variation will not take place. However the increase or variation will come into effect if, within 15 Working Days of you giving that notice to us, we do not receive notification through the relevant supply industry processes that another supplier will begin to supply the Premises within a reasonable period of time after that notice has been given by you.


I hope this covers your query. Let me know if you have any further queries.

Kind Regards

Colin @ ScottishPower

Scottish_Power

Sorry, meant to read dogshome.

Premier_2

dogshome wrote: »

...The 12 month rule can only be applied where the supplier has failed to produce any bill for a period beyond 12 months, ...

That is not the case.

Failing to send a bill is just one of 6 reasons given for applying the 12 month back billing rule.

Here are the other five:

d) received the necessary industry notifications but have failed to set up a record on their billing systems, or
e) failed to set up or maintain accurate meter and metering data, or
f) failed to use valid readings provided by the Customer or data collectors, or
g) failed to reassess regular payments within the previous 15 months based on accurate information available to them, or have failed to communicate the need for and use of a Customer own reading at this time, or
h) failed to attempt to obtain a valid reading during the previous 15 months,

http://www.energy-retail.org.uk/documents/BillingCodeFAQs15Oct08.pdf

I'm not sure what the basis of the other SP customers facing bailiffs are, but as long as SP can't demonstrate that;

a) use of supply has been made by a Customer but that no attempt has been made by a Customer to contact a Supplier to make or arrange payment, or
b) the Customer is wilfully avoiding payment, or
c) the Customer has not co-operated with attempts to obtain meter readings or resolve asset queries required to facilitate accurate bill production.

then the 12 month back billing rule should indeed apply

dogshome

Hi Boblove & Colin of SP
I look forward to seeing the terms of back-billing when they have been amended.
However the extracts from your Terms & Conditions underline the point I am trying to make

1. 
   
2. Subject to Condition 13.3,[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]we [/FONT][/FONT]will bill [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]you [/FONT][/FONT]and [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]you [/FONT][/FONT]will pay [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]us [/FONT][/FONT]for a supply of [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Fuel [/FONT][/FONT]made by [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]us [/FONT][/FONT]in accordance with the payment option, and at the price applying to that payment option, as specified in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Application Form [/FONT][/FONT]or in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Verbal Agreement [/FONT][/FONT]and recorded and detailed in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Letter [/FONT][/FONT](as applicabl

The prices you started out with are the one's that stick

Boblove We have all had great fun argueing the semantics of Contract Law, but to actually help you we need to know exactly what the tariff error is that SC claim to have made, how much the extra bill is for, and the details of how it is made up
Please Post

dogshome

Hi Premier - You are quite right, but the basis of my post was the information contained on the Energy Retails Assn site that the Scot Power rep. directed boblove and I to, which mentions nothing beyond the lack of bills
Let's hope boblove posts so we can clear this one up.

Cardew

Premier wrote: »

That is not the case.

Failing to send a bill is just one of 6 reasons given for applying the 12 month back billing rule.

Here are the other five:

d) received the necessary industry notifications but have failed to set up a record on their billing systems, or
e) failed to set up or maintain accurate meter and metering data, or
f) failed to use valid readings provided by the Customer or data collectors, or
g) failed to reassess regular payments within the previous 15 months based on accurate information available to them, or have failed to communicate the need for and use of a Customer own reading at this time, or
h) failed to attempt to obtain a valid reading during the previous 15 months,

http://www.energy-retail.org.uk/documents/BillingCodeFAQs15Oct08.pdf

I'm not sure what the basis of the other SP customers facing bailiffs are, but as long as SP can't demonstrate that;

then the 12 month back billing rule should indeed apply

I read these amendments differently!

Clearly if no bill at all has been raised then they cannot go back more than 12 months; that has never been in dispute.

However the actual wording is:

Unless the above clauses (a) to (c) apply, Energy Suppliers will not seek additional payments for un-billed energy consumed over 12 months ago if they have: (my bolding)

Take the case of a customer who had been billed for, say, £500 a year for 3 consecutive years when the bill should have £600.

If that error was due to one of the 5 reasons above, then they could charge him only an extra £100 for the last 12 months and the additional 2 x £100 for previous years would be written off.

However those cases are not "wrong tariff" as the OP states.

As said above, the only case that I can think of is the the Economy 7 issue where night day consumptions are reversed and charged at the wrong rates.