Been suspended :( - Legal advice please

dmg24

TDA10 wrote: »

Firstly, how does 2 apology letters amount to harassment? They weren't sent on the same day, or even the same month! And I actually had nothing to apologise for - I was just trying to smooth the situation over. I would imagine when most people fall out they either send texts, cards, flowers, letters, emails etc?

And no, it isn't B&Q - I haven't been on here for a while and that is an old sig. But it is one of the opposition firms.

Thank you for your input

Harassment is in the eye of the beholder. Two instances of unwelcome contact/ action can constitute a criminal offence.

fabforty

There is no excuse for what you did - and you need to stop trying to create one. Don't waste your time and money trying to claim constructive dismissal or justify your position. Having already done one stupid thing, you want to make it worse by blaming others; try taking responsibility.
Count yourself lucky that your employers haven't called in the police - yet. If you received sick pay on the basis of the false medical evidence that you provided, you may face charges of fraud or deception.

TDA10

fabforty wrote: »

If you received sick pay on the basis of the false medical evidence that you provided, you may face charges of fraud or deception.

I didn't receive sick pay on that basis - I genuinely received it for stress and depression.

elsien

Zazen999 wrote: »

The only thing you can really do; is to appeal the decision when they dismiss you based on them not following their own procedure. The thing with the colleague is irrelevant; but you can file a grievance against him or them if you want. If you put this in now, before any dismissal; then it may have a bearing on their decision and may have a bearing on any decision made by a tribunal - but it may not.

However, I do suspect that you will be dismissed; it will only be based on the procedure that they did not follow that will determine whether you can take it to a tribunal or not.

I think I agree with this - it seems the most likely outcome given the breakdown in relationships and trust all round.

The other point for you to consider is would you really want to go back into that situation even if you did end up with a warning rather than dismissal? They don't sound like the most supportive of employers even before this whole mess kicked off, you've got problems with colleagues that aren't going to go away, you'll have a job getting them to trust you again anyway and you've got mental health issues at the moment. Your stress levels are not going to be improved by going back into that situation with every move you make being watched like a hawk.
Not trying to put you off, but I think you should give some serious thought about what is going to be best for you in the long term.

TDA10

dmg24 wrote: »

Harassment is in the eye of the beholder. Two instances of unwelcome contact/ action can constitute a criminal offence.

It can, but not once was I told they were unwelcome.

The legal def of harassment is (in shortened form) 'A person must not pursue a course of conduct which they know or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other'

Which I didn't. AFAIK I was trying to make up for whatever I'd done wrong. I wasn't stalking them, or bombarding them with calls or texts, or threatening to smash their windows - I was trying to be friendly.

Funny world...

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay, I've had a quick skim through this and get the gist of it - but if I've misunderstood anything fee free to pull me up on it (nicely of course )

Firstly, I can see nothing wrong with the way they have conducted the procedure to date. You would never be given notice of suspension, simply because, by its nature, it is a step that is taken to get someone off the premises and keep them off while the matter is investigated. Although I am a bit surprised they bothered, given that you are off sick anyway, unless you were about to return to work?

Once the disciplinary procedure gets under way there will be a meeting and you should be given a full opportunity to explain yourself then. You are entitled to be accompanied by a work colleague or a TU rep, so do make sure you take someone with you to the meeting.

As to your actions - on the face of it falsification of medical reports is likely to be viewed as gross misconduct unless there are significant mitigating circumstances. Are you under a specialist? Will your medical advisers back you up and say that in their view you did this while you were under the influence of a depressive illness or whatever? You need a really robust letter in support, will they provide this? You need to go and see your GP/Specialist straight away and explain what has happened.

I don't accept that depression is not viewed as an illness by your employer as it can amount to a disability in some cases, and your employer would be treading very dangerous ground if they had a policy of refusing to recognise it. But, again, if your depression amounts to a disability, you are going to need a very detailed letter/report from your GP (or preferably your specialist) explaining the circumstances behind these problems and how they affect you in your day to day life.

But ultimately, you are looking at dismissal and you are going to have a difficult time pulling yourself back from the brink.

Oh sorry, nearly forgot - yes you can ask for the disciplinary hearing to be postponed on the grounds that you are suffering from stress and depression, and you are not well enough to attend the hearing, but again, you will need a clear and robust supporting letter from your GP/specialist to support this.

Good luck and keep posting

Regards

Daisy

jim_walton

I wouldn't make it easy for them by resigning. I would just ignore any further correspondence and see how long they pay you for!!

TDA10

Thanks Daisy - just 2 quick questions - were they not unfair in asking me to attend an informal meeting whilst off sick, supposedly just to ask how I was, and then drop the suspension on me without giving me chance to prepare and explanation? I've never been in trouble before so am not sure of the procedures.

And also, is it not a breach of confidentiality to inform other staff members of my fate even before I'd come into the building???

Thanks for the helpful advice so far.

To the poster above who said it - I'm not trying to find excuses, I'm just trying to explain that I never intended things to happen this way.

RobertoMoir

TDA10 wrote: »

Thank you for the useful replies so far - I did say please don't reply if you are going to slate me. I also didn't ask for sympathy. I asked for legal advice, not berating.

I am fully aware that what I did was wrong, but it was done whilst suffering depression and stress after a serious physical assault that really messed my head up. Work were showing no sympathy for the trauma I had endured and so I stupidly said the hospital thing just to get some understanding and affection. Once I said it, there was no going back. I never thought they'd want proof from the hospital as most employers just accept a Dr's sick note. But this firm don't accept stress and depression as being illnesses, so I would have been disciplined for that reason anyway. That's why my mate came up with the idea of the 'fake' letters.

Please, no more 'it's your fault so go away'. That doesn't help. It's coming up to Christmas and I'm almost out of a job. I'm not perfect. Have you never done anything wrong?

Your mate didn't do you any favours I'm afraid. It isn't up to the employer what they accept if its on a real doctor's note, and depression is certainly a well defined medical condition, so you would have a good case to get your doctor to write that on a certificate and go to tribunal if they refused to accept it.

You've fundamentally breached the trust with your employer due to your actions though, and I can't see back from that myself, unless the doctor is willing to say that you were not responsible for your actions due to your illness (and stress and depression IS an illness, and I'm sure any competent GP will enjoy telling them that).

I don't think any procedural mistakes possibly made on their part will cancel out what you've done - issues like a breach of confidentiality might be a serious matter but that's a disciplinary matter against the manager who spoke out more than anything else.

You're right when you say that we've all made mistakes - the thing is that there isn't any way I can think of to recover from this one. I know you don't want to hear this but sometimes the best you can do is leave with dignity. Even if you manage to avoid being sacked right now I think your card will be marked. Sorry.

elsien

The forthcoming disciplinary hearing is considered your chance to prepare and explain; have they given you a written copy of the disciplinary procedure and any other relevant information such as the staff handbook (if there is one)? If not, you need to ask for them.
Suspension is meant to be seen as neither a presumption of guilt or innocence, it's a way to keep people apart/ out of situations while investigations and hearings go ahead.